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    Honduras Coup

    Been away and a quick scan reveals no thread about this, but I may have missed one, and if so, apologies.

    Back to the 80s? How long since there's been a genuine old-school Latin America coup-d'etat (or golpe d'estado, I guess)? And what will the reaction of the newly thoughtful USofA be? Left-ish leader ousted by military coup backed by rich elite would in the old days have had the CIA's fingerprints all over it. But now? Still? If Euronews is anything to go by, the groundwork for the non-reaction from the West is already being laid - talking about Zalaya's shrinking popularity as if that ought to be a consideration. On that basis a military coup in the UK is far more pressing and desirable.

    Link: http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/21817

    #2
    Honduras Coup

    No, we've not done it.

    Interestingly, this is the official US reaction.

    Comment


      #3
      Honduras Coup

      But don't let anyone call it a bloodless coup

      Comment


        #4
        Honduras Coup

        That first link's not working, Ton Ton.

        I heard on the radio that Hilary had denied the US had anything to do with it. (Which is probably what your linked reference said).

        I saw Three Days of the Condor again this weekend, in which a security organisation within the CIA operates without the heads of the CIA knowing anything about it.

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          #5
          Honduras Coup

          Fixed, soz.

          Comment


            #6
            Honduras Coup

            Yeah reassuringly prompt and correct reponse by Los Yanquis.

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              #7
              Honduras Coup

              I thought that the Honduran congress asked the Army to remove the president from office. They were afraid he was trying to pull a Chavez, you know...change the constitution to allow for more than one term.

              Anyway, we had an attempted coup in Venezuela a few years back and countless shady elections.

              Comment


                #8
                Honduras Coup

                Ah come on. For trying to run an opinion poll, he gets kidnapped and taken abroad?

                Every coup claims some spurious legality or legitimacy.

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                  #9
                  Honduras Coup

                  They were afraid he was trying to pull a Chavez, you know...change the constitution to allow for more than one term.

                  Well he was. He had said he wanted to have a referendum on allowing the president to serve more than one term. Democratically elected president suggets holding a referendum. It's hardly some kind of dramatic turn towards a one-party state is it? The coup is anti-democratic there's no two ways about it.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Honduras Coup

                    I didn't say it wasn't an overreaction. I was just explaining their rationale.

                    Anyway, do you think he had any idea this would happen? I mean, he had to at least realize he was worrying a lot of people with his talk of scrapping the constitution. Changing the constitution to serve your own needs isn't very democratic. It obviously backfired, but in hindsight perhaps he just should have served out his term and kept his mouth shut.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Honduras Coup

                      Having a vote on whether people want a referendum on whether or not to change the constitution - how is that not democratic?

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                        #12
                        Honduras Coup

                        I mean, he had to at least realize he was worrying a lot of people with his talk of scrapping the constitution. Changing the constitution to serve your own needs isn't very democratic.

                        There is a very big difference between scrapping the constitution and making changes to it.

                        And there is nothing whatsoever wrong with changing a constitution, as long as you run your proposal past the voters first.

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                          #13
                          Honduras Coup

                          You're going out on some very weird limbs here radmonkey in attempting to justify the unjustifiable.

                          Note that Obama made a very strongly worded statement yesterday (well as strongly worded as diplomatic niceties allow) concluding with (more or less) "As far as we're concerned Zelaya is still the president"

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Honduras Coup

                            More here.

                            Basically, it seems he tried to amend the constitution in a way that was contrary to the constitution.

                            If there's ever a time for the military to depose a president, it's when he's disregarding the rule of law, I'd have said. And while I don't think it was by any means the best option, they have at least passed power on to civilians rather than taking it for themselves. Which probably speaks to their bona fides.

                            I think he needs to be reinstated, sure, but I honestly don't know that this was a Right-Wing Power Grab, or that talk of CIA involvement is remotely based in reality.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Honduras Coup

                              This paragraph in the Washington Post suggests the US tried to stop the coup because the coup now gives Chavez, et al. an excuse to be agressive.

                              Senior Obama officials said an overthrow of the Zelaya government had been brewing for days -- and they worked behind the scenes to stop the military and its conservative, wealthy backers from pushing Zelaya out. The U.S. failure to stop the coup gave antagonists such as Chávez room to use events in Honduras to push his own vision for the region.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Honduras Coup

                                Well there had to be a reason, Reed.

                                "Aggressive" in what way, though?

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                                  #17
                                  Honduras Coup

                                  The article says that Chavez is thinking about an armed invasion (I should have mentioned that.) That would count as agressive.

                                  Although the United States condemned the coup, the most vocal statements of opposition -- along with threats of military intervention -- have come from Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, who led a summit of leftist allies in Nicaragua on Monday that demanded Zelaya's reinstatement.

                                  "We are saying to the coup organizers, we are ready to support a rebellion of the people of Honduras," Chávez said. "This coup will be defeated."

                                  Micheletti said, "We have fears because of Mr. Chávez. We don't know what to expect of him."

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Honduras Coup

                                    Ah right. I should probably have read it.

                                    Sounds unlikely. He has made threats about reacting to any further attacks on Venezuelan diplomats, but I doubt he'd invade, meself.

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                                      #19
                                      Honduras Coup

                                      I think Brazil's president summed it up well.

                                      "We in Latin America can no longer accept someone trying to resolve his problem through the means of a coup," Lula said.

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                                        #20
                                        Honduras Coup

                                        Especially seeing as they're not actually connected to one another. It's not like Venzuela has massive amounts of spare airlift or sealift capacity to hike their army 500 miles across the Caribbean.

                                        (to TT not Reed)

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                                          #21
                                          Honduras Coup

                                          Not with that kind of negative defeatist attitude, they don't.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Honduras Coup

                                            Indeed.

                                            I like the idea of "supporting a rebellion of the people of Honduras". Seems, again, and sadly, unlikely. You never know, though.

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                                              #23
                                              Honduras Coup

                                              That article that Toro posts suggests that attempting to unconstitutionally push for a non-binding referendum is equivalently bad as organising a coup and deposing an elected leader at the barrel of a rifle. On balance I think this is an utterly shit argument.

                                              What Lula said, in other words.

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                                                #24
                                                Honduras Coup

                                                On balance, I'd agree.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Honduras Coup

                                                  The actual question that was to be asked in this non-binding referendum (ie state sanctioned opinion poll) was: "Do you agree that, during the general elections of November 2009 there should be a fourth ballot to decide whether to hold a Constituent National Assembly that will approve a new political constitution?"

                                                  Which makes that TPM piece even dodgier, I think.

                                                  Comment

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