What next for the left in England & Wales?

[DCI Harry Batt]

Tonight we're going to get the EU elections results. Best guess at the moment is two Nazis among the UK delegation - NW England and Yorkshire - but we'll know soon.

One thing we know is that New Labour deservedly polled very, very badly indeed. But has that benefited the left at all?

The Greens are hoping to do well. But looking at the locals, they this week managed to add about as many councillors as UKIP did. And can we really call them of the left anyway? How different are they from their European collleagues (with whom they sit in the EU parliament)?

I don't think anyone imagines that no2eu has a chance of a seat. But how low will their vote be? As bad as the Left List's ill-fated campaign in London last year (0.9%, since you ask)? Better? Does it matter, or was it just about learning to work together, and maybe nicking a few votes that might otherwise have gone to the Nazis?

It's a terrible time for there not to be a genuine socialist electoral alternative. The economy continues to melt down, and the current political crisis is massive and won't be resolved quickly. And who benefits? The Nazis, mostly. Tonight we're hoping to celebrate having kept them down to only two MEPs. FFS, talk about a paucity of ambition.

So what do we do about it? There will be a general election within ayear. It could be a lot sooner than that. Do we have time to get our act together, collectively? Do we have the inclination? And if so, on both counts, how do we do it?

[DCI Harry Batt]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

There does seem to be some good news in some other parts of Europe - Ireland, France, Germany, Greece, Spain, Portugal and an astonishing victory in Greenland. That should cheer me up, and in a way it does, but it also makes me wonder why we are so shit here.

[The Purple Cow]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

GroenLinks have done very well in Holland, a fact glossed over by the media in their haste to join the hysterical coverage of the PVV's relative success.

[KimCasey]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

As an outlandish reach, here, TT - why don't you and yours join the largest network of (allegedly) leftish people in the UK, and fight to take us back to some semblance of decent socialist action and policy? No? OK, that was perhaps a tad far-fetched on my part.

Now that I’m working full-time for UNISON, the County Council have agreed (verbally, at least) to turn a blind eye to any political activity I undertake, so long as I don’t actually stand for office of any sort (although I still got mildly admonished for leaving a big pile of Hope not Hate leaflets in, ahem, “break-out zones” across County Hall). So – I went to my first Election Count since 97 on Friday morning in Worcester.

It was, as can be imagined, fairly grim. We’ve dropped from 17 Councillors to 3, with some very decent people kicked out. Thankfully, we kept the BNP well and truly at bay. The thing that really struck me, however, was the new batch of Young Tories, who all seemed to carry that “world belongs to us” arrogance that so many Tories carry. Did those of us who were active in Young Labour back in the mid-90s have that? I really, really hope note, but I do have some suspicions.

I’d image tonight will be even worse (I’m not invited to this one, boo hoo) – but at least Gordon might finally see, or be made to see, sense. I think the only hope Labour has of not being written off for a generation (or worse) rests with some fairly dramatic shifts in leadership, tone and actual policy in the next couple of months. What, I suppose in different times would have been disparagingly labelled a “core vote strategy.” Perhaps some good old-fashioned lefty “entryism” could help?

By the way, I can see this demonstrates a typical Labour Party person’s view of the world – i.e.: the left = the Party. Apologies for that. My son (9 today) is still in a huff that I didn’t vote Green in the Euro’s on Thursday. His view: “I’ll be on this planet a lot longer than you – vote Green.” I was quite proud of him! (and didn’t open a discussion on Stem Cell research either).

[The Contented Penguin]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

If it helps, the Nazis have not lived up to expectation in the local elections, gaining only three county councillors, two of which were existing borough/community councillors, and the other in an area with a notoriously high support for the far right. Although they are the first county councillors they've had, so I suppose it still counts as progress for the fuckers.

I have also heard a claim that when there is a more 'acceptable' right wing alternative (Ukip, English Democrats) on the ticket, the BNP don't make gains. So hopefully that will be reflected later in the european results.

As for the left - who knows. I agree, the growth of the anti-capitalist left in europe is heartwarming. I'd speculate that the reason we've not seen the same in the UK is entirely the fault of the left, which has a propensity towards division, bickering, and defeatism. This has to change before we can build any lasting movement.

I am pleased Crow has said he wants to build upon the No2EU platform, which is progress, albeit at baby step pace. I also have to say I was pleasantly surprised by how receptive people were to socialist ideas in this election, which compared favourably to previous campaigns. On the other hand, nobody, including many of the people campaigning, actually believes we're capable of creating a big enough movement to have any influence, so I suppose the latter makes the former irrelevant!

As usual really, fuck knows.

[DCI Harry Batt]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

Have you got some numbers, TPC? I can't see anything that I can follow.

KC - the short (or rather, the easy) answer is that you wouldn't have us. Unless we pretended to be something other than what we are.

[KimCasey]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

Fair enough, TonTon. I wish some of our leaders had been pretending a few years ago!

[DCI Harry Batt]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

nobody, including many of the people campaigning, actually believes we're capable of creating a big enough movement to have any influence

Fucking hell - I thought I was on a bit of a downer...

[The Contented Penguin]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

TonTon wrote:

nobody, including many of the people campaigning, actually believes we're capable of creating a big enough movement to have any influence

Fucking hell - I thought I was on a bit of a downer...

Innit. Depressing.

I think for many, particularly the old veterans, it's just self-protective cynicism.

Nothing on the euros yet TT, I was just going off what various pollsters and commentators have said re: Ukip & ED benefitting more than the BNP.

[Jorge Porbillas]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

Labour look likely to be third in Wales - if that's true it would be incredible.

[DCI Harry Batt]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

TPC, not TCP - you two need to sort your names out though. I was looking for Dutch numbers.

I'm not the cheeriest of blokes, or anything, but I don't lose hope like that. And it would be a disaster if the most experienced of your lot did. An absolute disaster.

[The Contented Penguin]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

TonTon wrote:

TPC, not TCP - you two need to sort your names out though. I was looking for Dutch numbers.

I'm not the cheeriest of blokes, or anything, but I don't lose hope like that. And it would be a disaster if the most experienced of your lot did. An absolute disaster.

Sorry! Yeah, I agree it would be a disaster. I probably didn't do their position justice though - I think the older heads just think we have to appreciate that No2EU might not ultimately come to anything, but if it doesn't then we just get on with things and try and build (yet) another left alliance. On the other hand, the younger members are ridiculously optimistic, which is great, but it's just a worry that they might get disheartened if things don't develop.

I'd imagine it isn't too dissimilar with SWP? I also read on SU that SWP have got a few councillors in the locals in Dublin? Great stuff.

[DCI Harry Batt]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

The thing won't be done until we work out a way of working together, I think.

Yeah it looks as if People before Profit have won 5 council seats in Ireland, which is a good start. Shame, again, that we're not working together there.

[The Contented Penguin]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

TonTon wrote:

The thing won't be done until we work out a way of working together, I think.

Yeah it looks as if People before Profit have won 5 council seats in Ireland, which is a good start. Shame, again, that we're not working together there.

Agreed & agreed.

[E10 Rifle]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

Before we get too morose, in terms of thinking these are uniquely bad times, history tells us that it is the right rather than the left that almost always benefits from bad economic times. Current voting patterns are depressing but by no means unprecedented.

Yet there is this astonishing disconnect between our ideas and analysis basically being true and popular and the manifestation of them being almost non-existent. It's almost the converse of, say, the early 80s when the Left was organisationally strong but unpopular (or not popular enough) in the wider population, whereas now we're organisationally piss-weak and demoralised but more people might share our ideas.

But I do think the left has been poor - and I include all parts of it in this, inside and outside the Labour party - for a long time at communicating outside its own circle of people. So we've deluded ourselves that 100 like-minded people turning up at a meeting constitutes 'a mass groundswell', that every time we and all our mates go on a demo on a picket we're reflecting something wider. Yet sometimes we're not. The left is invisible in large areas of the country, so it's no surprise that people go all over the place in elections and the like.

[David Agnew]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

TonTon wrote:

nobody, including many of the people campaigning, actually believes we're capable of creating a big enough movement to have any influence

Fucking hell - I thought I was on a bit of a downer...

Unfortunately, there's a hell of a lot of truth in it. Getting a left-leaning organisation off the ground always seems to be difficult because without a big name it attracts no attention, and when a big name is involved, it tends to be one that is (rightly or wrongly) discredited, or has an ego.

And taking that organisation from being a unit that can work together to being a serious alternative force (that can beat the nazis, and not just take votes away from a party that is challenging them for, let's be honest, sixth place) is nigh on impossible, because of the media. The BBC never gave airtime to Respect/The Left List/NO2EU/Socialist Labour, and the private media will never give houseroom to a leftist organisation, because private media may have some sort of leftist agenda (at least the Mirror and the Guardian used to, but both seemed to be in bed with New Labour at the point when I stopped reading many years ago), but is always ultimately owned by right-wing capitalists, and a political surge towards the left would (should, at least) atrract the interest of the unions, and if it ever came to power would and should be reversing some of the anti-union laws that Thatcher created, and her successors have kept in place to keep their friends in business happy.

Think of the non-extremist parties that have emerged in recent years, which ones get the coverage? UKIP's original popularity is solely down to Kilroy-Silk being an ex-politician and a TV personality. Christ, even the second party he tried to create - Veritas - gained more publicity than the Left List ever did, and the Left List stood in the London Elections last year. Veritas never fielded a candidate in any election at any level. Even the BNP have benefitted from the multitude of radio, TV and print articles warning of the dangers of the BNP, while whipping up moral panic abuout immigration and driving voters into their arms.

But the mass media is a market that any fledgling political organisation needs to court if it is to be taken seriously - because so few of the electorate will find out about the aims of a collective that doesn't promote itself - but almost 300,000 people voted for the Socialist Labour Party, NO2EU and the Socialist Party of Great Britain, despite the lack of coverage, despite the lack of promotion.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have a fucking good try, mind.

[Banana Banana]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

It is also euro elections which in England and Wales is alwasy bad for the left. All the Anti-EU nutters vote in droves and everyone else stays home and watches Corrie.

If we had elections for NHS boards, the left would do better as the people most interested in the NHS would vote in droves and those with private care wouldn't bother. So any election on that day would be distorted.

This is also what happens in Euro elections.

Accepting of course that it is still a shockingly bad result.

[DCI Harry Batt]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

True enough, this anti-EU nutter has voted in every one he could. But then, as an anti-UK nutter, I vote in general elections too.

At least I don't bloody watch Corrie though.

history tells us that it is the right rather than the left that almost always benefits from bad economic times

That's a bit sweeping, for me, E10. I suppose you're concentrating on elections, and voting in elections is always likely to be where we are at our weakest. There are plenty of examples of serious struggle in times of economic hardship, though.

[E10 Rifle]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

Well I'm not just talking about voting to be honest, though that can't be ignored. It's a big part of why the Tories won in 1979 and even worse forces won elections in the Thirties.

But we both agree that politics is about more than casting votes every so often; but at the moment I'm not convinced that "the struggle" is very active and focused away from electoral politics. Sure, we've seized on things like Visteon and the oil refineries stuff and the G20 protests as frontline things to engage with, but the wider organisational and numerical weaknesses of the left have manifested themselves at all those things too.

[DCI Harry Batt]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

I don't mean to suggest that things are great at the moment, more that there are many examples of struggle in times of economic crisis in the past.

I think things are in the balance at the moment. Visteon was a fantastic fight, but tiny. The oil refineries dispute was much bigger, but much more problematic for me. We have the tube out completely for 48 hours from tonight, and activists in the CWU fighting hard for serious action in the post.

I'm sure you'll be giving your support same as I will, and we'll see what everyone can make of it.

Are you coming along to the Fight for the Right to Work conference next Saturday? I do believe the NUJ has supported it.

[E10 Rifle]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

Can't make it I'm afraid, though there should be a healthy smattering of NUJ people there. I'm in Glasgow 'playing' football and boozing. Yet again being distracted from The Struggle.

[Tubby Isaacs]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

Isn't the striking thing about the results that people are far happier voting Green than Socialist? Even though there must be a fair bit of common ground between the two?

Some of this is personal- I expect to some extent Bob Crow is less cuddly than Caroline Lucas and the like. And of course Socialists to get his hands dirty with strikes and things. But couldn't a more Green emphasis help? Nefertiti mentioned a synergy between RMT and the Greens, more of that sort of thing?

[DCI Harry Batt]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

I don't think that's necessarily true, but even if it is - we're socialists. We should pretend not to be to win votes.

Anyway, this is what we have to say, tonight:

Open letter: Left must unite to create an alternative

An open letter to the left from the Socialist Workers Party (SWP)

Labour's vote collapsed to a historic low in last week's elections as the right made gains. The Tories under David Cameron are now set to win the next general election.

The British National Party (BNP) secured two seats in the European parliament. Never before have fascists achieved such a success in Britain.

The result has sent a shockwave across the labour and anti-fascist movements, and the left.

The meltdown of the Labour vote and the civil war engulfing the party poses a question - where do we go from here?

The fascists pose a threat to working class organisations, black, Asian and other residents of this country - who BNP führer Nick Griffin dubs "alien" - our civil liberties and much else.

History teaches us that fascism can be fought and stopped, but only if we unite to resist it.

The SWP firmly believes that the first priority is to build even greater unity and resistance to the fascists over the coming months and years.

The BNP believes it has created the momentum for it to achieve a breakthrough. We have to break its momentum.

The success of the anti-Nazi festival in Stoke and the numbers of people who joined in anti-fascist campaigning shows the basis is there for a powerful movement against the Nazis.

The Nazis' success will encourage those within the BNP urging a "return to the streets".

This would mean marches targeting multiracial areas and increased racist attacks. We need to be ready to mobilise to stop that occurring.

Griffin predicted a "perfect storm" would secure the BNP's success. The first part of that storm he identified was the impact of the recession.

The BNP's policies of scapegoating migrants, black and Asian people will divide working people and make it easier to drive through sackings, and attacks on services and pensions.

Unity is not a luxury. It is a necessity. If we do not stand together we will pay the price for a crisis we did not cause.

The second lesson from the European elections is that we need a united fightback to save jobs and services.

If Cameron is elected he will attempt to drive through policies of austerity at the expense of the vast majority of the British people.

But the Tories' vote fell last week and they are nervous about pushing through attacks.

Shadow chancellor George Osborne told business leaders, "After three months in power we will be the most unpopular government since the war."

We need to prepare for battle.

But there is a third and vital issue facing the left and the wider working class. The crisis that has engulfed Westminster benefited the BNP.

The revelations of corruption, which cabinet members were involved in, were too much for many Labour voters, who could not bring themselves to vote for the party.

One answer to the problem is to say that we should swallow everything New Labour has done and back it to keep David Cameron, and the BNP, out.

Yet it would take a miracle for Gordon Brown to be elected back into Downing Street.

The danger is that by simply clinging on we would be pulled down with the wreckage of New Labour.

Mark Serwotka, the general secretary of the PCS civil service workers' union, has asked how, come the general election, can we ask working people to cast a ballot for ministers like Pat McFadden.

McFadden is pushing through the privatisation of the post office.

Serwotka proposes that trade unions should stand candidates.

Those who campaigned against the BNP in the elections know that when they said to people, "Don't vote Nazi" they were often then asked who people should vote for.

The fact that there is no single, united left alternative to Labour means there was no clear answer available.

The European election results demonstrate that the left of Labour vote was small, fragmented and dispersed.

The Greens did not make significant gains either. The mass of Labour voters simply did not vote. We cannot afford a repeat of that.

The SWP is all too aware of the differences and difficulties involved in constructing such an alternative.

We do not believe we have all the answers or a perfect prescription for a left wing alternative.

But we do believe we have to urgently start a debate and begin planning to come together to offer such an alternative at the next election, with the awareness that Gordon Brown might not survive his full term.

One simple step would be to convene a conference of all those committed to presenting candidates representing working class interests at the next election.

The SWP is prepared to help initiate such a gathering and to commit its forces to such a project.

We look forward to your response.

[NHH]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

At the risk of appearing horribly tribal, given we added 50% to our vote on a reduced poll when everyone else went down, what the fuck would adding significantly look like?

[DCI Harry Batt]

What next for the left in England & Wales?

Yeah that looks loosely worded, to me. But "gains" in election-speak means seats, doesn't it?