Running shoes

[wingco]

OK, so I'm determined to take part in one of the numerous 10K events that are constantly cropping up - in conjunction with a friend, perhaps in September. I've been practising by running actual 10Ks in the gym on the treadmill - my first was 58 mins, well within myself, the second 54 mins after which I had to have a bit of a sit down. I think 10K is about as long as I'd be prepared to run - to think, after the effort I put in last Thursday, that there would be another 20 miles to go if this was a marathon, is quite staggering. I could run a marathon, I suppose, if the organisers were prepared to stay around for several hours after everyone else had gone home, the authorities were prepared to hold off traffic just to accommodate me and I could stand the ignominy of being overtaken by a bloke in a deep sea diver's outfit.

Anyway, my point is this - so far, I've been running in what might as well be pumps and my calves and ankles are duly suffering. Mindful of the recent thread about air soles, I need some advice from some of OTF's limberer contingent about appropriate and useful footwear. I'm off to the London Marathon shop in Covent Garden next week. What sort of shoes should I be looking for? What sort might benefit me best? If I had to describe my appearance I'd probably say "handsome, well-built." Are there particular shoes with particular features for such people (well, with emphasis on the "well-built", ie less than whippet-like)? Also, I'd like to avoid Nike or Adidas. Any tips?

[Bruno]

Running shoes

It depends on the shape of your foot, its motion, and your style of running (whether you strike on your heel or mid/forefoot). At a minimum you should be wearing something that isn't too tight,* which usually means buying a half size up from your dress shoe size. It also can depend on how much you want to spend.

* this being the more common phenomenon than wearing something too big.

[Bruno]

Running shoes

I dashed off the above before being called away to something less urgent. More specifically, what sort of an arch do you have (high arch or flat foot or in the middle); if you have a high arch, does it stay rigid and in place when your foot hits the ground or does it flatten out.

Above all do you land on your heels or somewhere more to the fore. If the latter then you just need a shoe that fits, is comfortable and has a pleasing amount of cushioning.

If you land on your heels, it will depend on whether your foot pronates normally or over-pronates (turns inward) or whether in fact you ride along the outside of the foot (supination).

If you have particularly wide feet, many running shoes offer wide sizing. Ditto for unduly narrow.

Oh yes- as for avoiding brands like Nike and Adidas, if that's based on something political or 'socially informed' I probably can't be of much use, although I understand New Balance has a relatively untarnished reputation. Other than that the choice of brand comes down to one's preference for the 'house fit' - no one brand is especially better than another in my opinion. Asics, Saucony, Mizuno, NB, whatever. HOWEVER, I think you need to spend around a minimum of 75-80 dollars (USD) to get a quality enough shoe for long distance running. Some companies like Reebok retail a lot of cheap crap.

[ChrisJ]

Running shoes

As Bruno said. If you're off to a decent running shop, go on the treadmill where they analyse your gait, they'll recommend the right shoe. Otherwise it's hard to say.
As to make, I'm also a largeish runner, mainly owing to being a swimmer who runs sometimes, and I'm a Saucony man myself.*

*Mostly out of habit, before some twat calls me a fanboy.

[Bill Poster]

Running shoes

I'm sure I read something recently about the inverse relationship between the cost of the trainers and feet problems. ie cheap trainers are better. I can't remember where I saw it though.

From personal experience I had a lot of problems with calf strains, shin splints and achilles tendon strains when I was running even half of that distance on a treadmill. What sorted me out was putting Superfeet insoles in my trainers. After resting to let the pain go, it never came back.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Running shoes

Get some PB Walsh (made in Bolton!) and pretend you are a fell runner...

[Guest]

Running shoes

Everything Bruno said re: pronation. On the subject of brands, I tried a pair each of Adidas, Nike & Mizuno when I went recently to upgrade my running shoes, and the Adidas were the most comfortable by a million miles. They were bloody expensive as well, but you get what you pay for.

Not exactly an in-depth consumer survey that I know, but it's probably better to aim for comfort regardless of the brand.

[Cal Alamein]

Running shoes

I'll plug New Balance as I like their variety of different widths. Prices (in the U.S. anyway) are not too bad.

[diggedy derek]

Running shoes

Go to one of the Runner's Need shops, wingco. They'll sort you out, looking at your running style and suggesting something appropriate.

Just don't do what I did and leave your brand new pair on the bus.

Oh yes- as for avoiding brands like Nike and Adidas, if that's based on something political or 'socially informed' I probably can't be of much use, although I understand New Balance has a relatively untarnished reputation.

I think we had a discussion about this before, and the consensus was that New Balance was slightly better ethically than the big brands. But it's really marginal. Essentially, they're almost all made from cheaply-sourced, irresponsibly tapped resources in the Far East, causing lots of toxic waste over there. New Balance are assembled in the UK by, one presumes, minimum waged staff, which is at least a bit better than some off the radar sweatshops. But it's rather marginal.

If you want to be ethical, probably the best thing to do is get a long lasting pair.

[Levin]

Running shoes

I've heard good things about Marathon regarding fitting. They'll have a look at your stride and all that jazz before helping you find a shoe.

[rick derris]

Running shoes

new balance every time

[Femme Folle]

Running shoes

When my shoes try to make a run for it, I lock them in the cupboard.

[Bruno]

Running shoes

Bill Poster wrote:

I'm sure I read something recently about the inverse relationship between the cost of the trainers and feet problems. ie cheap trainers are better. I can't remember where I saw it though.

That could well be true regarding some of the fanciest designs that feature some outlandish things like this



Shoes like that will likely run you $140 or more and in my opinion encourage the wrong sort of running technique; the damn shock tower thingies were so springy when I tried them out that it made me want to overstride. (They also assume you strike with your heels, which in itself can cause more injuries.)

However, cheaper trainers almost always mean less cushioning and/or less durable cushioning. The shoes can be just fine but will tend to burn out faster; I generally notice an improvement in cushioning quality with the shoes costing $80-$100.

Other considerations are breathability and flexibility, the way the shoe 'flows' when you run, and some of the more expensive shoes can excel in those categories.

From personal experience I had a lot of problems with calf strains, shin splints and achilles tendon strains when I was running even half of that distance on a treadmill. What sorted me out was putting Superfeet insoles in my trainers. After resting to let the pain go, it never came back.

I assume Superfeet provide some kind of arch support and better foot stability, and some people certainly do need that. If, for example, you're a heel striker with a rigid arch you can be putting a lot of strain on the plantar fascia tissue that supports your arch as you pronate from heel to toe; an insert can redistribute the impact across the entire foot.

[Bruno]

Running shoes

Just to be clear I would recommend spending a minimum amount but probably no need to pay more than a hundred bucks or so, unless you find something that is just too comfy to resist. Too much cushioning can be a bad thing by encouraging sloppy form. Expensive shoes are often heavier, too.

[wingco]

Running shoes

Thanks a lot everyone, OTF comes through as ever.

[Ibn Pickthall]

Running shoes

Not sure where you're based in London, wingco, but definitely try The Sweatshop out if there's one near you. I went to the one in Teddington a couple of years back when I was looking into doing more running and they were very helpful. They give you the brief running test to examine your stride and impact and make suggestions as relevant, it's free from what I recall but you can ask for a more detailed assessment which isn't.

I ended up buying the Asics 1100, but it doesn't look like they stock them anymore. They've lasted a long while and have only recently started to wear at the front on the soft mesh covering. Even so, they're still miles more comfrotable and sprung than any other trainers I own.

[Femme Folle]

Running shoes

It is quite amusing to picture Wingco running in pumps. Thanks for the giggle.

[Ibn Pickthall]

Running shoes

And I meant to add that if you have problems as a result of persistent high-impact running, particularly on hard-surfaces then it's worth considering getting a 1/2 size larger trainer and using some sorbothane insoles as a impact-reducer. They made a big difference to achilles-related problems I was having.

[hobbes]

Running shoes

How about these?

[wingco]

Running shoes

Spearmint Rhino would be upset if I nicked his shoes to go jogging in.

[JtS]

Running shoes

The Asics shop on Argyle St do a "gait" assessment before selling you some expensive trainers.

[Bill Poster]

Running shoes

Found it!

Please don't think too badly of me for going on the Daily Mail website. While I can understand the public anger, it was a moment of weakness for which I have apologised.

[Bruno]

Running shoes

Yeah. No, if I could run on a dirt or rubber track I probably would do the barefoot thing. On my treadmill I can wear burned out shoes and do just fine. On the road, I like a little cushioning and of course protection from sharp things. I generally hold onto shoes for longer than the stores say you should. I also buy ones that are as soft and lightweight as possible; the closer your foot can get to behaving as it would naturally unshod, the better.

I think the takeaway from that article is forefoot running. When you're barefoot, landing on your heels is simply not an option. Landing on your forefeet completely changes the approach to running and I wholeheartedly advocate it (and this of course is how humans evolved to run in the first place). But some people are going to land on their heels anyway, and that being the case they need to be wearing shoes that correct for any over-pronation; and if they supinate they must wear a neutral shoe (one without any medial reinforcement) so as not to be pushed further to the lateral sides of their feet.

When you run on your forefeet, pronation and supination become practically irrelevant.

As for going without shoes entirely...sure. A lot of people do it, even running on the roads. I might do some experimenting with the Kenyan-style minimalist shoes some time and see how I do. It has to be the kind of thing you work toward gradually, though, if you're accustomed to cushioning.

As for correlation between the shoe industry and increased injuries, there are probably a lot of other correlations that need to be looked into before reaching any conclusion. A whole lot of things can cause injuries.

Another thing they don't mention is that in these scattered cultures who still do barefoot running, the grown men seem never to weigh more than 130 pounds (?). There is a world of difference between that and someone pushing 200 and possibly carrying around extra padding that's even pulling their posture out of whack. Before you head out barefoot you might at least want to be at or near your ideal BMI.

Thanks for the link, interesting read and interesting debate. My philosophy is, at the end of the day it's just a shoe; how you run is more important than what you have on your feet.

[Bruno]

Running shoes

Tried my first barefoot run this morning. It felt very good, there's definitely something to it. I found to my surprise the impact is actually reduced, even greatly reduced, by the absence of a shoe. There is no noise of feet hitting the ground as you glide along. I tried running on asphalt, concrete sidewalks and brick road, and felt no real difference other than texture. Went about 2.5 miles to be conservative, but will definitely be experimenting further with this...

[David Agnew]

Running shoes

wingco wrote:

I could run a marathon, I suppose, if the organisers were prepared to stay around for several hours after everyone else had gone home, the authorities were prepared to hold off traffic just to accommodate me

This happenned to my first boss. Finished last in the Majorca marathon - two hours behind everyone else. The band that was there to welcome the finishers had long gone home, and the only person waiting for him was one of the organisers, who was there to present him with his medal.