'Re-genderising' names

[evilC]

I've just had my flabber slightly gasted by this blog entry, which mentions a lady by the name of Clivena. I had no idea my name could be ...what's the word... 'feminised', I imagine.

I suppose it's pretty much a free-for-all with first names, these days, regarding adding suffixes and prefixes in order to change their traditional 'gender'.

Any particularly *ahem* noteworthy examples of this practice been spotted out there?

[erwin]

'Re-genderising' names

'course ... she might claim that her name's been 'masculinised' ... although I suppose there's rather a lot more 'Clives' out there than 'Clivenas'.

[Andy C]

'Re-genderising' names

She might claim that, but she'd be wrong.

I'm often a bit wrongfooted by names that seem to change gender when they cross the Atlantic. There seem to be more female Robins and Taylors in the USA than male ones, for example, and it feels a bit wrong.

[beak]

'Re-genderising' names

The lady who would be my mother-in-law, were I to marry my girlfriend, has a long string of middle names, as appears to be the fashion amongst Dutch Catholics.

One of her middle names is 'Johnny'.

[Ginger Yellow]

'Re-genderising' names

The first name of one of my aunts is Christopher, although she's always been known as Kit.

[Stumpy Pepys]

'Re-genderising' names

Well, Nigella is the one that springs to mind. Is there anyone in the world called Nigella, apart from Ms Lawson?

[Incandenza]

'Re-genderising' names

Andy C wrote:

I'm often a bit wrongfooted by names that seem to change gender when they cross the Atlantic. There seem to be more female Robins and Taylors in the USA than male ones, for example, and it feels a bit wrong.

I've heard of male Taylors before, but a male Robin would just be strange. I would feel sorry for a male Robin, because I know he would have had to endured a lifetime's worth of "hey Robin, where's Batman?" jokes.

[Hofzinser]

'Re-genderising' names

Like Robin Williams, for instance?

[Guest]

'Re-genderising' names

Or Robin van Persie, Robin Gibb, or Robin Cook.

Really, I'm not sure Americans should be allowed to name their children. Some kind of UN High Commission ought to be instituted to handle it for them. That or, at the very least, specially-trained registrars. It's for their own good...

[gt3]

'Re-genderising' names

Sikh names are genderless, so gt3 could also be a girls name.

[Incandenza]

'Re-genderising' names

Raskolnikov wrote:

Or Robin van Persie, Robin Gibb, or Robin Cook.

Who's the American in that bunch?

[gt3]

'Re-genderising' names

Robin Wright Penn?

[Taylor]

'Re-genderising' names

My understanding is that in America, Taylor was predominantly a male name until relatively recently, and is now more commonly given to girls. But with the exception of Taylor Swift, all the US Taylors I can think of are male (film director, drummer from Foo Fighters, kid from Hanson, 60s gay underground film star, character in American Psycho, couple of others I've forgotten) while the female ones tend to be... models, shall we say, who probably aren't using their given name anyway. Well, there was Taylor Dayne, but that's not her real name either.

In this country, I've only ever met two others, one male and one female (and I'm stretching "met", as the male one was a kid in the supermarket whose mother I overheard). It does, however, appear in the 100 top boys' names for the last few years, so we're on the rise. My mate says there's a (male) Taylor at his daughter's playgroup. Doesn't feel as lonely as it once did. Then again, I wasn't christened Taylor anyway, it was one of the names my birth parents used to register me pre-adoption, and I chose to use it when I started writing, because I needed a nom de plume but I didn't want to just make one up out of thin air. It stuck, anyway, almost like a nickname.

Clivena. That's truly astonishing. I thought Nigella took the cake, so to speak, but Clivena is breathtaking. I always thought Brianey was a little dubious in this respect, too. I could accept these names if they were chosen because the parents just happened to like them, or had always thought the name Clive needed a female equivalent, but it never works like that, does it? I'd put 100 quid on Clivena's father being called... well, yes. That's the kind of blundering arrogance you don't see every day. Why not just wait and see if your next child is a boy, so you can indulge your weird determination to stamp a child with your own handle, without making them a laughing stock?

The broadening of this thread made me think - I've heard of female Johnnys and Jonnys, though not many, and I did once hear of a female Christopher, but I can't remember where (I don't think it was GY's aunt). What about Michael Steele from The Bangles - I presume that was a pseudonym?

It works the other way, occasionally. You used to get male Carols, didn't you?

[Guest]

'Re-genderising' names

And Marians, like John Wayne. Was it John Wayne? Someone like that. Oh and Hilary is a proper old boy's name too.

Also people seem to be more relaxed/ignorant etc of the fact that Leslie was always for boys, Lesley for girls, and Francis/Frances similarly.

[Taylor]

'Re-genderising' names

Lyra wrote:

And Marians, like John Wayne. Was it John Wayne? Someone like that.

Yes, John Wayne. The other great one of these is Shirley Crabtree, aka Big Daddy.

Lyra wrote:

Oh and Hilary is a proper old boy's name too.

I used to know a male Hilary. He was the son of the Dean of Worcester. Hippy. Played the trombone.

[Wyatt Earp]

'Re-genderising' names

Lyra wrote:

And Marians, like John Wayne. Was it John Wayne? Someone like that. Oh and Hilary is a proper old boy's name too.

Also people seem to be more relaxed/ignorant etc of the fact that Leslie was always for boys, Lesley for girls, and Francis/Frances similarly.

John Wayne was a Marion, not a Marian. Marian was always a girl's name, I think.

[Hofzinser]

'Re-genderising' names

Ice T, of course, is called Tracy.

[Taylor]

'Re-genderising' names

Stacy Keach.

Sandy Lyle.

[Wyatt Earp]

'Re-genderising' names

Nigella is a real name, I think. Clivena; not so much.

[Taylor]

'Re-genderising' names

Of course, someone's going to say it's Stacy for boys, Stacey for girls. Well, whatever. His name's Stacy, and he lived through the playground. Boy Named Sue Award for Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer, I think.

[Taylor]

'Re-genderising' names

Other countries, of course, have many boys' names which are girls' names over here (or sound the same), as football has taught us. I remember once trying to piece together a full first XI of footballers with girls' names. Got about nine, I think. There was Lilian Thuram, Karel Poborsky, Michel Platini... oh, I forget.

[Guest]

'Re-genderising' names

Oh yeah, Marion, yeah, sorry. And Shirley! I knew there was another one. Shirley.

Although, Marian Pahars! (He's Marians, really, I think).

[Amor de Cosmos]

'Re-genderising' names

Your female Taylors, Brookes, Courtenays, Madisons and so on are a legacy of the 70s and early 80s, when 'preppyiness' was a fad in North America. I'm not sure it was one that traveled however.

[Incandenza]

'Re-genderising' names

FYI, the most popular baby names in the US for 2008

Boys
Jacob, Michael, Ethan, Joshua, Daniel, Alexander, Anthony, William, Christopher, Matthew

Girls
Emma, Isabella, Emily, Madison, Ava, Olivia, Sophia, Abigail, Elizabeth, Chloe

SSA has lots of information for names on their website.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/

For boys, Jayden was number 11 for 2008. God help us all.

I'm also shocked that my name is suddenly popular. I never saw another kid named Evan until I was in high school.

[evilC]

'Re-genderising' names

Taylor wrote:

I used to know a male Hilary. He was the son of the Dean of Worcester. Hippy. Played the trombone.

Taylor - you are Sir Henry (at) Rawlinson (End) and I claim my £5.



As for Clivena, I can't help thinking of the epsiode of the Simpsons, where Homer met his long-lost (English) sister, Abbie.



Fathers should never name their daughters after themselves ...even if their own names are Marian or Shirley!