Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

[nefertiti]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

A lot of the expenses are for staff. Some MP's used this to employ family, but as has been pointed out by Chippy, if they are doing their job properly they should be spending at least £100,000 to employ a researcher and a secretary, equip their offices and pay their National Insurance contributions.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

I too think staff costs need to be stripped out of these figures, because they're different to other expenses. However, I don't think MPs get a complete free pass from this. Many, particularly Tory MPs, moonlight fairly extensively. We need to juxtapose staff costs with directorships to see if the MP is effectively paying someone else to do his job so he can go off and make money.

[Banana Banana]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

MPs and ministers do pay income tax as normal.

The argument about housing is that parliament only pays either rent or the interest on the mortgage, the MP has to pay the capital out of their salary.

So, in effect, they take the 'risk' but of course for much of the last 30 years betting on rising house prices has not been much of a risk. Although MPs elected in 2005 who lose their seat next time could see a real loss. Just as some of those elected in 1983 who lost their seat in 1987 did.

Anywy the newspapers always add in staff costs to the expenses figure: otherwise there isn't much of a story. It doesn't help when MPs employ relatives.

[Banana Banana]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

Ricky Lenin wrote:

I'm a little confused by the fact that an MP could claim expenses up to more than double their salary. How does that work?

Because the expenses are not expenses. They are mostly staff costs for 1-2 employees and the costs of running a second home as we like our MPs to live near us.

[pebblethefish]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

centrifugal wrote:

I just don't get what kind of expenses claim administrator doesn't go, "He's claiming for WHAT? A FUCKING MOAT? What next, getting his portcullis descaled? Fuck off!"
Apart from a really corrupt one, obviously.

I would so love that job. I'd be like a petty dictator in my own office.

[NHH]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

Have these MPs not heard of fucking renting? Jesus. That's a really easy way to take care of the capital risk. Cunts.

[E10 Rifle]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

Meanwhile, in other, rare good internal democracy news, Blairite placeperson and Philip Gould's daughter Georgia Gould was beaten in the Erith and Thamesmead candidate selection at the weekend, despite the astonishingly persistent efforts of The Machine.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

Renting is more expensive than buying in the longterm, so I've no problem with it. I'd just like to see profits shared with the taxpayer.

Though I suppose owning two places is a major disincentive for them to do anything to stop a houseprice bubble.

Chippy's point is very good about the MPs losing their seats next time being in the shit with houseprices.

The Express, as ever looking for a line The Mail haven't thought of, have come up with rumours that The Queen is upset about the expenses row. After her 40 years worth of tax avoidance, she can't really talk.

[Bill Poster]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

E10 Rifle wrote:

Meanwhile, in other, rare good internal democracy news, Blairite placeperson and Philip Gould's daughter Georgia Gould was beaten in the Erith and Thamesmead candidate selection at the weekend, despite the astonishingly persistent efforts of The Machine.

Fucking A as they say on The Sopranos.

Meanwhile I'm thinking of asking for some furniture to be delivered to my home and to send the bill to Ed. And I'm not having any of that Habitat crap either.

[NHH]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

Fuck taxpayer value. The whole problem is this sharing risk bollocks. Fuck risk sharing. Just rent. The taxpayer pays. There's no capital gains bollocks. There's no profit sharing. This isn't an investment, it's about where legislators live. This idea that every aspect of life contains a financial upside to be managing is part of the bloody problem.

[Anton Gramscescu]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

Is it true that some of the "second homes" are actually not in London but in the constitutencies? If so, isn't part of the problem that some constituencies (Hartlepool, anyone?) are seen as sinecures into which any party hack from London can be parachuted?

[nefertiti]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

More than that NHH, it's the entire problem. If their valid claims for accommodation in London were met (where they have to be in accordance with their duties at the House of Commons) then the whole shabby "flipping" scenario wouldn't work.

A lot of this is connected to the new labour tendency (Tories too but not so much) of parachuting apparatchiks into safe seats. They are selecting people for heartland Labour constituencies who have no interest in even pretending they live in their constituencies. Let alone selecting strong local representatives who have any real commitment or knowledge to the places they nominally represent (like the guy in Wyre Forest does for example).

[gt3]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

This whole "sack the Speaker" campaign is really nauseating. The MP's calling for him to stand down are the ones who were fiddling their expenses in the first place and now they claim some sort of moral high ground accusing him of letting them get away with it! Orwellian double-think or what?! It's a shabby spectacle.

The offenders should be made to resign their seats, forcing bye-elections in their constituncies. That way you'd have a cleaning of the Augean Stables without having to call a General Election, which isn't necessary, because as I understand it, it's a minority of MP's who've behaved in this way.

Then, as I said upthread, institute a system of means testing for MP's. I repeat, if you're rich enough to have a moat you don't need my money to maintain it.

[Spearmint Rhino]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

The fucking nerve...

The culture of our leaders freeloading at the public's expense, having all their living costs paid and enjoying an extravagant lifestyle completely tax-free is criticised by... let's see if you can guess before clicking.

[ad hoc]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

I guessed the right family, wrong person.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

NHH wrote:

Fuck taxpayer value. The whole problem is this sharing risk bollocks. Fuck risk sharing. Just rent. The taxpayer pays. There's no capital gains bollocks. There's no profit sharing. This isn't an investment, it's about where legislators live. This idea that every aspect of life contains a financial upside to be managing is part of the bloody problem.

Am I the only person fed up with this rude clown?

So waste money on the grounds of bogus ideology, great. Maybe you can then get in a lather about grasping landlords making easy money at taxpayer expense.

[NHH]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

A rude clown writes: I'm struggling to see what bogus ideology I'm purpotedly wishing to see upheld via the MP expenses system; if by bogus, you mean the idea that houses are places to live rather than investments to live off, then yes, I am in favour of that entirely ridiculous and bogus notion (ideology is a bit of stretch I think).

I think Nefertiti might be onto something. I'd love to see an analysis of which MPs have bought places in London and which haven't. I'd bet that the apparatchiks - the special advisors, party hacks etc - all bought houses when they worked in London, then bought houses in the constituency they were running for. They then are left with owning two homes, which is such a burden.

In fairness, I'm sure it is, but a more helpful solution would be you leave your job in London, sell your house, get a real job and live in the community you seek to represent all week, (rather than Friday-Monday) and then apply to be its MP.

The alternative is that we the taxpayer should subsidise the costs incurred by a group of overweaningly ambitious hacks in pursuit of their careers, which in turn creates a deeply problematic political culture.

[Felicity, I guess so]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

some constituencies (Hartlepool, anyone?) are seen as sinecures into which any party hack from London can be parachuted?

That's what they thought when they set up directly-elected mayors for stronghold northern cities but I'm not sure if Labour won any of them, certainly losing N. Tyneside and...Hartlepool (to a monkey).

[Ginger Yellow]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

Realistically, Tubby, how much money is going to be "wasted" over five years, at least in a more normal interest rate environment? If they're renting, they won't have to pay for maintenance etc.

[Guest]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

Michael Martin's resigned.

[Banana Banana]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

The obvious ploy with renting is that it is so amenable to being abused by bad-minded and greedy people.

You can rent off a friend, you can rent from an off the shelf company that will donate its profits to your local party or pay your brother-in-law a dividend.

In fairness, I'm sure it is, but a more helpful solution would be you leave your job in London, sell your house, get a real job and live in the community you seek to represent all week, (rather than Friday-Monday) and then apply to be its MP.

Well, you are subverting democracy if you make rules that limits the right of a constituent to choose whoever they want as their MP. Or insist that MPs can't stand unless they live in the constituency they represent, particularly as boundary changes are reasonably frequent.

There is no solution to the problem of party apparatchiks. They will always exist, very bright brown-tongued people will seek to bypass the 15 year wait to get elected by other methods. The best you can do is constrain it by having a vibrant democratic process. Which, currently, means we are fucked. STV would help, other forms of PR (AMS) would make it worse.

[Banana Banana]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

vennegoor strokes wrote:

Michael Martin's resigned.

Excellent, a scapegoat has been founded, back to sharing a taxi to Heathrow and getting a receipt each.

[Tactical Genius]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

They should not change anything to be honest.

The should just publish every penny of expenses claimed in detail from every MP online and in the papers in the same way they like to publish school league tables and hospitals.

I bet you will not see any more claims for moats and hob-nobs then.

[Ibn Pickthall]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

I've got a whole host of potentially daft questions to ask OTF (I'm storing them up for a slow news month), but the pressing one is: What's the significance of the Speaker resigning over this? Is he accountable for, or does he sanction MPs expenses?

[pebblethefish]

Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

He's fat and left-wing. The Sun need no further excuse to start a witch hunt.