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    Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

    Clear Blue Water? Looks like we've finally got it. Labour MP's claim for two toilet seats whilst Conservative MP allegedly claims for the and I kid you not, the clearing of his moat.

    Another claims for horse manure.

    Really, is this how much respect the ruling classes have for those of us that pay their wages? Should I be surprised at being surprised?

    #2
    Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

    The MPs' expenses deal seems to have been set up, with a nod and wink, in lieu of a series of pay rises that Parliament was scared to award itself. Which is so, so stupid.

    Brown actually doesn't seem to have done anything wrong himself, and by the looks of things Johnson and Miliband (E) and Cameron will come out of it OK too. I'd love that punchable little cunt Gove to come a hideous cropper.

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      #3
      Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

      Christ, yeah. I'm not a violent man but punching Michael Gove is an activity I'd be unlikely ever to tire of.

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        #4
        Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

        You do sense that the expenses business is the thing that is really going to take with people, and, despite the fact that, as gt3 says, the Tories are probably in it to up to their necks as opposed to the Labour waists, prove to be the unseating of this Government.

        It's kind of perverse but tells you a lot about human nature. A firm I worked for a few years back had a fairly liberal expenses claim policy, duly stretched by employees in a sort of auto-Robin Hood fashion, feeling as they did that they were being underpaid by said firm. All went well until one particular staff member put in a claim on an overseas trip for £1.19 for . . . toothpaste. The publisher who vetted expenses, and who had waved through with no more than a furrowed brow numerous taxi claims and spurious restaurant receipts, blew his top at the £1.19. It seemed to him so petty and flagrant and a general clampdown on expenses ensued.

        The public mood seems similar. The millions, the billions pissed away over the years by this government on white elephant IT schemes, PFI, illegal wars, under-taxation of the rich and over-indulgence of their avoidance schemes, etc, etc, are all waived. A few quid on dodgy window cleaning expenses, porn videos or garden gnomes and suddenly a nation is up in arms.

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          #5
          Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

          The system in Japan is, as I understand it, a lot simpler and al lot less open to abuse. Instead of allowing parliamentarians to claim for a second residence if they need to be away from their homes to attend parliament, there is a hotel that they can use. If you don't want to avail yourself of this provision, you pay for an alternative out of your own pocket.

          This is simplistic, but I think the principle's sound. If MPs can't be trusted to judge for themselves what expenses are necessary and reasonable for them to be able to do their job, define what they need and give it to them. Build a TraveLodge - if they want to, they can use it. If not, that's up to them.

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            #6
            Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

            Wyatt & Hofz: count me in for coat-holding duties while ye slap the arsey Aberdonian.

            And what Wingco said.

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              #7
              Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

              Yeah, it occurred to me that all this could be solved by having, essentially, halls of residence for MPs when they're in London.

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                #8
                Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                The BBC published a list of all MPs' expenses, see here:

                http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8044207.stm

                Out of curiousity, I ran the figures through excel to see which party is the most profligate.

                Disappointingly, despite the news stories of claims for swimming pools and horse manure, the conservatives were the most frugal of the big three last year.

                Conservative MPs claimed an average of £138,320 in expenses in 2007/08.
                Labour MPs claimed an average of £146,442.
                Liberal Democrats are the surprise big spenders, claiming an average of £151,210.

                As you can see though, there's not much between them, suggesting it's the system that's the problem rather than individual instances of abuse.

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                  #9
                  Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                  Those figures are probably skewed somewhat by the geographical distribution of the constituencies that they represent. There's a higer proportion of Conservatives in the South-East.

                  I'm not saying that that explains all of the disparity though.

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                    #10
                    Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                    The Liberal Democrats have constituencies in places like Shetland, Badenoch, Caithness and Bute, so those bald figures aren't fair. Their London MPs commute instead of having second homes, as I understand it.

                    I think Labour are already gone, so the effect might be more on individual MPs. Sadly Gove is in too safe a seat to be defeated.

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                      #11
                      Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                      I like Andy's idea for that hotel. Can I insist that the hotel is built by PFI? Despite our being told what great value for money PFI was, MPs oddly didn't trust it to build Portcullis House which was built straight out of public expenditure.

                      But PFI is indeed awful and has an honoured place in Wingco's list. Added to the list of profligacy should be some of the senior public sector (or quasi public sector) salaries. When I worked for a certain council five years ago, the monitoring officer (or chief lawyer) was on well over a hundred thousand. This position doesn't exist in the private sector, so why was a salary like this being paid? Then there was the revelation that the chap who didn't get exams marked was on £340,000 for something that used to get done by someone on, at most, a quarter of that.

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                        #12
                        Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                        Sadly Gove is in too safe a seat to be defeated.
                        I think the suggestion was punching his puss rather than voting him out (winky smiley)

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                          #13
                          Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                          You know my views against vigilantism.

                          They don't however stop me holding his head.

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                            #14
                            Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                            Student-style halls of residence for MPs? That's just given me a sick image of a toga party attended by Hazel Blears. I feel nauseous.

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                              #15
                              Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                              http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8045414.stm

                              This is funny. But Paxman, Humphries and this unremarkable presenter who earns £92,000 are indeed overpaid.

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                                #16
                                Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                Yeah, it occurred to me that all this could be solved by having, essentially, halls of residence for MPs when they're in London.
                                Then all it would take is one gas leak...

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                                  #17
                                  Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                  This is funny.
                                  I was just wondering on which planet 92 is "nearly double" 64.

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                                    #18
                                    Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                    She's a bit assertive in her manner for my liking (when I slag off women for being like men, I make sure I use a word that covers my arse) but her questions aren't unreasonable, are they? Harrassing MPs indeed.

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                                      #19
                                      Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                      was just wondering on which planet 92 is "nearly double" 64.
                                      Maybe he meant 50% more, I sometimes get those confused

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                                        #20
                                        Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                        Buckingham Palace is only a short walk away. Surely that would be big enough for all the MPs?

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                                          #21
                                          Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                          The Times wrote: Several MPs, including front benchers, have already been told that he expects them to pay back "unreasonable" claims to the Commons authorities. It is understood that Michael Gove, the shadow schools secretary, is among those singled out by Mr Cameron, who is furious at how the last two days of disclosures have damaged his attempts to recast the Tories as a modern party.

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                                            #22
                                            Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                            Carrie Gracie was in the same year as me at Hertford College Oxford. As was Jacqui Smith. I daresay the both of them boast about it.

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                                              #23
                                              Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                              ...and wasn't Fiona Bruce under you?

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                                                #24
                                                Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                                All the diverting huff and bluff from MPs about "well it was within the rules" and "my claims were submitted and paid in accordance with Parliamentary scrutiny" does little to deflect the underlying point. No matter how much squirming about the "rules" they choose to employ, it is clear that repayment of expenses - taxpayers' money - was only ever there solely to allow MPs to carry out their necessary functions as MPs. How that extends to decorating, cleaning, or refurbishing second homes, let alone buying plasma TVs, is a mystery, and a clear and utter disgrace.

                                                Those responsible for the clear lack of scrutiny that has occurred (and I don't know if that goes all the way up to the speaker of the House) must all be held to account. But that in itself cannot deflect from the abuses perpetrated by the most glaring of offenders. They must, surely, in all conscience pay every penny of that money back.

                                                Should they fail to offer to do so, in every single constituency in the UK at the next general election, it should be up to the voters to decide, regardless of party loyalties, whether their current incumbent is a fit and proper person to represent them in public office in the future. I hope that if constituency party committes don't do the decent thing themselves and invite some of these weasels - cabinet minsters or shadow cabinet members included - to stand down in favour of non-tainted candidates, then in each and every one of those seats there stands a Martin Bell - type independent candidate only too willing to remind local voters over and over and over again what an immoral crook they have as an MP.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Where's The MP's Expenses Thread?

                                                  Their London MPs commute instead of having second homes, as I understand it.
                                                  Is that actually a formal Lib Dem policy? Do all of them follow it? My MP commutes too, and he lives in the constituency and drinks in the local and everything.

                                                  Anyway, terrific post by Wingco. Though you can't help sensing that what this reveals more fundamentally is the people to whom so many MPs compare themselves, and the people with whom they most communicate, and with whom they're most in touch. And it ain't their constituents. They've power-worshipped the financial world's masters of the universe for a quarter of a century, so have acquired a taste for their lifestyle. If you're in that orbit, 65 grand's not enough to live on.

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