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    It's grim up North (once again)

    Dissident Provos try to derail the peace process

    How can these bastards try to kick it off again after all that has happened since 1998?

    #2
    It's grim up North (once again)

    Possibly because they think that all the sacrifices since 1969 (1169?) deserve rather more than long-term minority party status in what's effectively a British county council?

    But whatever their tortured motives, sooner the cunts are locked up in Maghabery the better.

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      #3
      It's grim up North (once again)

      i didn't realise there was still any appetite for violence. any idea who might have done this?

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        #4
        It's grim up North (once again)

        Police briefings in recent months have suggested increased likelihood of dissident attack; in the last week the media concentrated on the Fermanagh area as a possible target.

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          #5
          It's grim up North (once again)

          Some lads in our office were discussing the North last week -- one rumour going around is that the lunatic republican fringe are aiming to take out a Catholic PSNI officer at some point in the next few months, in order to force Gerry Adams to be pictured at a copper's funeral.

          Sounds a bit outlandish, but nothing can be ruled out where these mad fuckers are concerned.

          The remnants of the INLA are still heavily involved in drug dealing and gang activity down here -- I wonder if their tentacles stretch into this one.

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            #6
            It's grim up North (once again)

            I read that somewhere too. Which might explain the targeting of the attack on security personnel. I wouldn't think, I'd hope, this presages a return to Omagh-style attacks though - too much else has moved on, albeit in a patchy and not entirely unsectarian way.

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              #7
              It's grim up North (once again)

              E10- I hope you're right, but for a lot of these boys things just don't move on, do they?

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                #8
                It's grim up North (once again)

                Has anyone checked the whereabouts last night of the local Pizza Hut delivery boy?

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                  #9
                  It's grim up North (once again)

                  i just saw it reported on TV that a sunday tribune journalist has received a message from "the real IRA" claiming responsibility. whoever the fuck they are.

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                    #10
                    It's grim up North (once again)

                    Have you genuinely never heard of the Real IRA?

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                      #11
                      It's grim up North (once again)

                      oh shit, you mean this is true?

                      I thought even though it was the headline on the Beeb, that it might be a mistake?

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                        #12
                        It's grim up North (once again)

                        Horrific. Yet on the basis that it only takes a couple of people to do a sectarian murder, it's surprising perhaps this doesn't happen more.

                        "Real IRA" seems to mean the exact opposite of what it says.

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                          #13
                          It's grim up North (once again)

                          Tubby- I think largely because it needs enough planning and support (in the broadest sense, everyone from suppliers of weapons, safe houses etc. to those banging bin lids when the Police approach). The Real deal don't have any electoral support at all, which makes it difficult for the other things to develop.

                          Real as in uncorrupted by compromise, I expect they would argue.

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                            #14
                            It's grim up North (once again)

                            Like fleas fighting over the fucking dog.

                            Hasn't it yet occurred to any of these fanatics - despite all the recent available evidence to the contrary - that it simply doesn't matter anymore who "governs" Northern Ireland, Westminster or Dublin? Either way, the whole world's in the grip of a slightly wider problem or two, and local politics don't mean a damn, let alone to start killing each other again about it?

                            It was horrific and pathetic when it actually might have meant something. Right now, it simply doesn't, unless someone's discovered huge oil deposits under the sludge that Belfast sits on that they've kept quiet.

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                              #15
                              It's grim up North (once again)

                              i have heard of "the real IRA", but i thought they had been put out of business after omagh. who the fuck are these people?

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                                #16
                                It's grim up North (once again)

                                Best known individuals used to be Bernadette Sands (Bobby's sister) and her husband Michael McKevitt. He was supposedly 'quartermaster general' in the Provos before they split.

                                The couple used to have a shop in a mall in Dundalk town centre- they were chased from it by an angry mob a few years ago. VS should remember details.

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                                  #17
                                  It's grim up North (once again)

                                  DG, sure, but given that blokes who sell drugs can get hold of a gun, it can't be that difficult for would-be sectarian murderers.

                                  I'm assuming part of the (relative) silence of these groups is down the mainstream IRA people keeping a lid on them by whatever means. Is there any sense that this might be getting more difficult for them to do?

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                                    #18
                                    It's grim up North (once again)

                                    i have heard of "the real IRA", but i thought they had been put out of business after omagh. who the fuck are these people?

                                    The same ones, more or less. Only one person has ever been convicted of bombing Omagh, which happened nearly 11 years ago.

                                    It's doubtless totally safe to say that the timing of these murders has nothing at all to do with British intelligence building a new HQ in the North a while back, out on the grounds of the old Palace barracks in Holywood, and having any possible need to justify its existence and huge budget. Nor with the comments made by Hugh Orde last week about how he had drafted in fresh support from SIGINT to deal with dissident republicans.

                                    A mountain of information has seeped out in recent years regarding the extent to which the British authorities infiltrated the IRA (and the loyalists), so it is pretty difficult to believe that they have not got deep inside the Real IRA during the past decade. Worth remembering that GCHQ had prior knowledge of the Real IRA's bombing of Omagh, but did not pass on the information to the police.

                                    It was renegade Provo scum who pulled all the triggers and did all the murdering last night. But do people really think that this horrible episode came suddenly flying out of left field with no warning, and that the British military happen to have no idea what's currently going on within the circles of those who parted company with the IRA when it got too mainstream (i.e. not shooting people) for them?

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                                      #19
                                      It's grim up North (once again)

                                      wasn't it becasue they had an idea what was happening in "dissident republican circles that they brought the army back into the equation?

                                      Sinn Féin's Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness last night backed the police manhunt and denounced the attackers. McGuinness, the deputy first minister, said: "I was a member of the IRA, but that war is over now. The people responsible for last night's incident are clearly signalling that they want to resume or restart that war. Well, I deny their right to do that."

                                      In an emotional interview, he said: "I will stand for all democrats against their attempts to plunge us back into conflict; to see soldiers on the streets; to see more checkpoints; to see houses being raided and to see people being dragged back to interrogation centres. Those days are over. They can never come back again."

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                                        #20
                                        It's grim up North (once again)

                                        Much as I admire the work McGuinness and Adams have done in bringing most of the IRA to peace, it's hard to read that without feeling a bit nauseous. Plenty of people thought the war was over when he was running around trying to kill people.

                                        A friend of mine from Northern Ireland (who some of you met, and I fancied a lot) was and remains very pro-peace process but said she wavered a bit when someone like McGuinness popped up talking about peace. I rather know how she feels.

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                                          #21
                                          It's grim up North (once again)

                                          Did she feel similarly nauseous whenever she saw Ian Paisley or Clontibret Robinson shouting the odds on the TV over the years?

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                                            #22
                                            It's grim up North (once again)

                                            Unionist by upbringing but didn't like unionist politicians and didn't vote for them, and moved to England as soon as she could.

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                                              #23
                                              It's grim up North (once again)

                                              She felt extremely nauseous when Paisley came on, yes. Is Clontibret different from Peter Robinson? Nausea again, yes.

                                              You keep editing, I can't keep up. David Ervine, him too.

                                              Those people are regarded as dinosaurs anyway, so they're a bit different. I think it's natural to feel awkwardness at all these people being in positions of authority, but if you deal with that, then that's fair enough. That's all I was saying she did. There are moments when the peace talk inspires, others where you must think "hang on".

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                                                #24
                                                It's grim up North (once again)

                                                In order to have a peace process in a conflict situation, people who once talked of war have to start talking about peace. And that includes the British government, who weren't some kind of peace-loving neutral arbiter back in the bad old days. I know different people's sensitivities need to be taken into account, but it seems a silly thing to be nauseous about. I thought Martin Mac sounded impressive on the news last night.

                                                But anyway, best not to have a rehashed 'Troubles' debate. We must all still hope that it's basically over.

                                                VS, do you reckon intelligence is as well infiltrated into the RIRA as it was with the Provos, UVF et al back in the day? Might they have been focusing rather more on yer Islamists in recent years?

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                                                  #25
                                                  It's grim up North (once again)

                                                  Tubby Isaacs wrote:
                                                  DG, sure, but given that blokes who sell drugs can get hold of a gun, it can't be that difficult for would-be sectarian murderers
                                                  Indeed, but intimidating the drugs trade in your local estate is a bit different from attacking a British army base in a unionist town.

                                                  I'm assuming part of the (relative) silence of these groups is down the mainstream IRA people keeping a lid on them by whatever means. Is there any sense that this might be getting more difficult for them to do?
                                                  Maybe, but another factor is that NI is now less heavily policed than it was.

                                                  vennegoor strokes wrote:
                                                  A mountain of information has seeped out in recent years regarding the extent to which the British authorities infiltrated the IRA (and the loyalists), so it is pretty difficult to believe that they have not got deep inside the Real IRA during the past decade...but do people really think that this horrible episode came suddenly flying out of left field with no warning, and that the British military happen to have no idea what's currently going on within the circles of those who parted company with the IRA when it got too mainstream (i.e. not shooting people) for them?
                                                  Yes, the British Government know who RIRA's HR director and auditors are. As VS says, the Brits have had briefing all about paramilitary strategies from the inside for decades. But no-one's suggesting the attack is unexpected- as I mentioned on page one, it's been trailed in the Belfast media for months.

                                                  On the BBC yesterday, their security expert Frank Gardner (the guy who was paralysed in Iraq), suggests that 15% of MI5's time is now spent on NI. That's still a lot of resource.

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