Renaissance Fairs

[Spearmint Rhino]

Why do Americans have things called 'Renaissance Fairs', where they actually dress up and act like they're in Mediaeval times (not the actual Renaissance at all)?

Is it because they have a very vague idea of pre-1776 history and it all blurs into one Ye Olden Days mush (like those B-movies where dinosaurs and humans co-existed), or is there some other reason for it?

(Question inspired by, as much as anything, a recently-watched Family Guy.)

[Mitch]

Renaissance Fairs

They're more Elizabethan aren't they, rather than Medieval? Which would fit.

I'd love to go one, personally. Acting like a bit of a dick in public is always worthwhile.

[ursus arctos]

Renaissance Fairs

Yeah, they are, or were at least initially intended to be. The Wiki is a useful introduction.

Medieval Times is something altogether different.

[Spearmint Rhino]

Renaissance Fairs

"and some include broader definitions of the Renaissance which include earlier periods, such as the Vikings"

Hahaha, bloody hell...

[Cal Alamein]

Renaissance Fairs

I've lately come up w/ the idea that it all started from American Monty Python fans who had seen The Holy Grail a few times and thought it would be cool to wear chain mail, eat massive turkey legs (not so medieval) and drink tankards of beer, uh, mead.

[San Bernardhinault]

Renaissance Fairs

I had a friend in the states who was an unsuccesful actress, and her troupe regularly went along to renaisscence fayres to play the parts of entertainers and vendors and so on. They all enjoyed it immensely, because they took the piss out of the people who came along.

I went along to one, once, somewhere in Wisconsin. It's actually harmless fun, mostly - just some silly entertainment.

But the reason they exist is almost entirely for the people who take it too seriously. And those exist. There are people who dress up as Princess So-and-so and believe the part, and tell you they should have been born in mediaeval times because it was so great (and, of course, who have a bizarre idea of mediaeval times that's based entirely on bad-Hollywood, and which covers a period from the fall of Rome to the French revolution - and where everyone washed and was healthy). These are the ones who drive the renaisscence fayre, and go along to all of them. Utter nutjobs. Extreme versions of live action beardhammer types.

But, for me, it was somewhere to go, drink beer in the sun, have bow-and-arrow versions of a coconut shy, and have lots of jesters and magicians and entertainers meandering around making things fun. And was much less rubbish than I was expecting.

[Spearmint Rhino]

Renaissance Fairs

Whenever I see photos from these things it always seems to be full of fat goths, so I guess I'd be in my element.

[Bruno]

Renaissance Fairs

To answer SR's question, yes, it's because for Americans it all kind of blurs together, knights, jousting, blacksmiths, mead- basically everything from King Arthur to Queen Elizabeth.

I loved going to them as a boy. Can't wait to take my son to one when he's old enough. I consider them more or less Tolkien inspired, dunno for sure.

My wife dated Andrew Bird (the musician) for around 5 years, and he used to gig at the odd Renaissance fair. What a crowd!

[Incandenza]

Renaissance Fairs

I've never been to a Ren Fair, and I refuse to be friends with anyone that has gone to one.

SR--have you ever seen the episode of "King of the Hill" where Hank gets the propane contract for a local ren fair, and Peggy starts working there? It's great.

[Spearmint Rhino]

Renaissance Fairs

Incashallah wrote:

I've never been to a Ren Fair, and I refuse to be friends with anyone that has gone to one.

SR--have you ever seen the episode of "King of the Hill" where Hank gets the propane contract for a local ren fair, and Peggy starts working there? It's great.

I'm not sure that I have... we're still waiting for season 6 to get a DVD release over here. We're years behind. It's very frustrating.

[WOM]

Renaissance Fairs

As opposed to fat goths, I've always equated RenFair types as fat Dungeons & Dragons/Star Trek/LOTR/Python types. Or, you know, your IT department.

[Incandenza]

Renaissance Fairs

Spearmint Rhino wrote:

Incashallah wrote:

I've never been to a Ren Fair, and I refuse to be friends with anyone that has gone to one.

SR--have you ever seen the episode of "King of the Hill" where Hank gets the propane contract for a local ren fair, and Peggy starts working there? It's great.

I'm not sure that I have... we're still waiting for season 6 to get a DVD release over here. We're years behind. It's very frustrating.

Well, as it turns out, I looked the episode up and it's in Season 6--"Joust Like a Woman."

WornOldMotorbike wrote:

As opposed to fat goths, I've always equated RenFair types as fat Dungeons & Dragons/Star Trek/LOTR/Python types. Or, you know, your IT department.

Yeah, I think there's too much fun and having of a merrie tyme at Ren Fairs for goths.

[Andy C]

Renaissance Fairs

Whenever I see photos from these things it always seems to be full of fat goths, so I guess I'd be in my element.

And "gypsies", who seem to be a lot of Stevie Nickses. Which gets you even deeper into your personal element I'd wager.

[Spearmint Rhino]

Renaissance Fairs

Good call.

[Banana Banana]

Renaissance Fairs

My Uncle was an aircraft engineer out in Los Angeles. He had done incredibly well: 3 kids, great job and house with a pool in Palos Verdes.

Anyway after an affair with a local librarian, he had to give up his house and pool and moved with his new wife to a trailer park in Santa Monica.

He named his trailer Camelot, put various mediaeval regalia and a suit of armour around the outside and with his new wife dressed up as Lancelot (in a suit of armour) and Guinivere.

I put it down to the California sun. If he hadn't had the good sense to leave Glasgow in the late 50s, I couldn't imagine him doing that.

[Incandenza]

Renaissance Fairs

Chippy--I drove by that trailer park last night (there's only one trailer park in SaMo).

[Reed John]

Renaissance Fairs

I have been to the Pennsylvania Renaissance Fair twice plus one really crap one in New Jersey and I've been to Medieval Times.

The Pa Renaissance Faire does a different "story" each year. One of the times I went, the whole story - told in a series of different performances and events throughout the day - was about Elizabeth I and the kerfuffle with Spain. Obviously, the story wasn't historically accurate, but they got the basic gyst. There were also a few short Shakespeare performances as well as some baudy bits from Chaucer (yes, I know). It wasn't crap at all. The actors were all pretty good and the script was funny and moved along nicely. Fun for the whole family.

The one in New Jersey was a hodge podge of poorly concieved Tolkien-esque crap.

There was also a jousting exhibition at the end. I'm not sure they still did that in Elizabeth's time, but maybe they did. Either way it was cool.

Depending on which event you attend, there will be more or less conflating of Dark Ages-Medieval-Renaissance, as mentioned above. There's an episode of The Big Bang Theory where Sheldon bitches about that.

And even if the performers doing the stuff try really hard to be period specific, the sort of people who get really into it and wear a costume to the fair usually do not. Their inspiration is usually fantasy novels, not history.

"I've always equated RenFair types as fat Dungeons & Dragons/Star Trek/LOTR/Python types. Or, you know, your IT department." Yes, that's pretty much it, although not all IT people are like that and not all people like that are in IT. Some of them are graduate students in shit like Mythology. Picture Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons.

There are also always a bunch of artisans selling some fairly cool stuff - Celticesque jewelry and what not, as well as some fairly insane stuff like chain mail and swords. These people make a living going from one Ren Fair and arts festival to the next. They're interesting to talk to. It's amazing how many people are willing to spend a lot of money for a handmade sword.

Medieval Times is good for a laugh. You get to eat dinner while watching a jousting exhibition. It's not historically accurate or specific, but it is pretty cool to see jousting. I went with some friends as part of a Stag Weekend. We did that because all of us were into D&D as kids so we wanted to pay homage to that simpler time in our lives before we went out to bars in Hoboken, got hammered, and chatted up women of questionable morals.

It's pretty common in American versions of fairy tales and what not to portray the "middle ages" in a way that shoehorns in everything from about 300 to 1700. I'm sort of surprised to learn that it's not done this way in Europe too. Of course, our "Old West" tends to be washed over in this way too.

[Wyatt Earp]

Renaissance Fairs

Reed of the Valley People wrote:

There was also a jousting exhibition at the end. I'm not sure they still did that in Elizabeth's time, but maybe they did.

I think they did, yeah, but by then there was already a cod-Arthurian, fancy-dress element.

My guess would be that the Commonwealth would have frowned upon it and that come the Restoration it would have been seen as comically old-hat.

[Incandenza]

Renaissance Fairs

It's pretty common in American versions of fairy tales and what not to portray the "middle ages" in a way that shoehorns in everything from about 300 to 1700. I'm sort of surprised to learn that it's not done this way in Europe too. Of course, our "Old West" tends to be washed over in this way too.

One of the best episodes of "This American Life" ever (to me at least) is called "Simulated Worlds." In it, Ira Glass goes to Medieval Times with Michael Camille, a Medieval historian. He's really intelligent and charming, and the segment is great.

I was shocked when I first learned that there were other Medieval Timeses besides the one in Buena Park, next to Knott's Berry Farm. As a kid, I assumed that was the only one.

[Reed John]

Renaissance Fairs

I think they did, yeah, but by then there was already a cod-Arthurian, fancy-dress element.

That's the way it is portrayed at the Renaissance Fair and Medieval Times. The knights all have colorful tunics that match the design on their shield and the thing the horse wears. They have an assistant carrying their banner, etc.

Obviously, nobody gets killed or seriously injured but it looks like the guys who do the jousting and fake sword fighting at these things are hitting each other fairly hard and with all of that gear on it's a very hard job. Maybe the guys who played the knights were aspiring to become Hollywood stunt men.

Has anyone mentioned the Family Guy episode where he becomes a ren fair jousting knight?

Peter: Yeah, two mutton joints, please.
Man Selling Meat: Thou wishes to feast on the appendage of a humble ovine?
Peter: Listen, you freak. We don't all watch Frasier, okay? Now, give me two mutton joints.

Also, in Garden State the mom of the guy played by Peter Skarsgard is dating a guy who has just been promoted to knight at the Medieval Times in New Jersey. He walks around the house in his armor because he's just that kind of guy.

[Bruno]

Renaissance Fairs

It's these guys.

The Society for Creative Anachronism's roots can be traced to a backyard graduation party of a medieval studies graduate, the author Diana Paxson, in Berkeley, California on May Day in 1966.[4] The party began with a "Grand Tournament" in which the participants wore motorcycle helmets, fencing masks, and usually some semblance of a costume, and whacked away at each other with weapons including plywood swords, padded maces, and even a fencing foil. It ended with a parade down Telegraph Avenue with everyone singing "Greensleeves". It was styled as a "protest against the 20th Century".

In my boyhood home town there was a public park where SCA people would congregate every Saturday morning in their chainmail and practice sword fighting. That was back when D&D was huge, so all of us young role playing nerds thought it was pretty outstanding.

[Reed John]

Renaissance Fairs

Same here. I have a friend who thought of himself as a big medieval history and fantasy buff but was utterly shocked and appalled when he went to an SCA meeting his first week at college. He just couldn't fathom that level of social awkwardness and geekery.

I had a similar experience when I attended the W&M Sci-Fi club's marathon showing of the best Star Trek films. I stayed to watch the movies, but I didn't make any eye-contact.

[Brandenburger Toro]

Renaissance Fairs

Poor sound quality, but what a song!

[Wyatt Earp]

Renaissance Fairs

The trouble with doing stuff like jousting at a "Renaissance Fair," though, is that it's ignoring precisely what was Renaissance-y about the Renaissance.

Mind, I suppose it's more exciting than translating Avicenna into Latin or summat.

[Reed John]

Renaissance Fairs

That's true. Both points. But it isn't ahistorical to show that Elizabeth's reign included a bit of the old ultraviolence. Staging a fake joust between a supposed English Champion and a Spanish Champion (at the one I went to, Spain was represented by an English mysoginist "traitor" ) is cheaper then trying to reenact the defeat of the Spanish armada at Gravelines.

Wiki has a pretty good article on the phenomena.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Fair