crap... let's forget it

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

let's

[Femme Folle]

crap... let's forget it

It was David Reimer, wasn't it?

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

crap... let's forget it

FF, I owe you a huge big fine great friendly kiss on your cheek!!

[Femme Folle]

crap... let's forget it

I'll hold you to that.

[DCI Harry Batt]

crap... let's forget it

What does any of that have to do with being gay, or not?

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

crap... let's forget it

TonTon wrote:

What does any of that have to do with being gay, or not?

Who cares why you want to know.

[DCI Harry Batt]

crap... let's forget it

I was wondering if you were trying (and failing) to be funny, or if you were just being stupid.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

crap... let's forget it

I'm just stupid

Are we done?

[Femme Folle]

crap... let's forget it

Can't we just all get along?

PPV should have used the word "transgender" instead of "gay", but I knew the story he was referring to. I suppose if you were born a male but raised as female, you would be considered gay if you were attracted to females, right? But you wouldn't really be gay because you weren't really a woman.

Or something. Please stop bickering and winding each other up. I'm begging you.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

crap... let's forget it

No, I shouldn't have used transgendered, FF.
Because the way I remembered it was that he was gay. Something wrong with "gay"? I had a very interesting chat with a beautiful woman today, and upon her saying "homosexuality is not a choice"

I told her that I agree with her completely, BUT, that I have this feeling of there SOMETIMES might be a chance of 95% not being a choice and the rest might SOMETIMES be you influenced, and I’m not talking homosexuality only, I’m talking anything.

I tried to explain by….

And I was very careful saying that it was an over the top comparison…

I said… most of the people I have heard of who have molested children, they come from a background of having been molested themselves.

Now, before some fucked in the head brigade come in and try to even imply that I am comparing homosexuals with persons who molest, here’s a big stern no no.

What I am saying is that it is the story of many, that people who molest come from a history of having been molested, and that there is this factor - in varying degree depending on what we talk about - of people influenced and convinced what is their right self, and what is their not self.

Back to my point, to those 5%, I am of the belief that a person homosexual is one born such, and it is a no lesser one, of none the less value than I or you or the bloody KKK look-a-like Pope, but I do think that you can be affected and convinced throughout your childhood that one is more “normal” than the other. The lad and the story I was after, and it was very kind of you to dig it out, is what I’m on about here. He was someone who had his identity stolen, or more true, forced.

Who cares if it was gay, trans this, trans that, the point was that his mind was messed with and he was made become something he truly probably wasn’t.

[DCI Harry Batt]

crap... let's forget it

Sorry, FF - I usually try to steer clear of the man and spend much less time on here when he's active. But some things I find more difficult than others to let pass.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

crap... let's forget it

Well, then, TonTon, I can make you happy and say that I will be fuck very off out of your way and you can enjoy this fully.

Have fun!

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

crap... let's forget it

Oh, and I must have really made you spend loads of time less than you really wanted because of all the time I have spent here past year.

I am truly sorry.

If I knew, I would have been her a lot less.

[Wyatt Earp]

crap... let's forget it

Or him?

[jason voorhees]

crap... let's forget it

Damn, didn't realize that poor guy offed himself.

I had to substitute teach a health class for a friend of mine, and she gave me the Oprah or Sally Jessy episode when they did Reimer's story.

The guy looked absolutely haunted and broken on the show, but I was hoping he found happiness with his wife and her child from a previous marriage or one-night stand. I guess that wasn't the case.

Horrible story, and a most horrible fate for the poor guy.

[Er Liquidatore]

crap... let's forget it

I don't get this thread one bit at all.

[Wyatt Earp]

crap... let's forget it

I assume PPV's initial posting, before the edit, said that one of the principals in the Reimer story was gay (perhaps the surgeon) and seemed to suggest that this was significant in some way. That doesn't really make sense, I think, in that gay activists (with some notable exceptions) tend more towards hereditarian explanations of sexual orientation than, say, feminists. But I bet that's it, and I bet that's what pissed TT off.

It's annoying when people delete stuff like that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

crap... let's forget it

Obvious question, and no doubt one that's been answered a million times, but how does a "gene" for homosexuality work with natural selection? Was it just the taboo that kept carriers of the gene producing offspring?

[Brandenburger Toro]

crap... let's forget it

There are lots of possible ways - none sufficient to account for all of the phenomenon, but there's no reason to think the whole phenomenon is the result of one gene, nor indeed that it is entirely genetic. It's a purely behavioural classification, and there's no reason at all to think the causes are homogeneous.

One potential way of thinking about male homosexuality would be as a side-effect of something fitness-enhancing which was inherited mitochondrially. In that case, the fact that male offspring were functionally sterile would not be maladaptive, as the relevant genes would be passed on exclusively in the maternal line anyway.

[Brandenburger Toro]

crap... let's forget it

It's unlikely that a taboo would be much use in such a circumstance - with high competition, even a very marginal disadvantage in fitness would see the relevant gene bred out of existence.

[Tubby Isaacs]

crap... let's forget it

The side-effect of something fitness enhancing sounds plaussible. Thanks.

Myabe it's the use of the word "fitness" there but I've got an image of locker rooms suddenly.

[Ray de Galles]

crap... let's forget it

The_Liquidator wrote:

I don't get this thread one bit at all.

PPV starts attention-grabbing thread which he knows will bring criticism, understandably gets that criticism, spends rest of thread claiming martyrdom.

I don't come on World all that often but it seems to happen quite regularly.

[Wyatt Earp]

crap... let's forget it

Yep.

Tubby: from the genes' point of view (though not of course from that of any rational and humane person), homosexuality is, in effect, a maladaptive defect. Organic explanations for it are therefore likely to be similar to organic explanations for congenital disease, and there are plenty of those. Not much is known about this stuff, but there's nothing especially perplexing about it.

That "maternal immune response" explanation they've been bruiting about recently is quite cute. Just a little too cute, though, I reckon: things aren't usually that neat and tidy.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

crap... let's forget it

Harri Saer wrote:

The_Liquidator wrote:

I don't get this thread one bit at all.

PPV starts attention-grabbing thread which he knows will bring criticism, understandably gets that criticism, spends rest of thread claiming martyrdom.

I don't come on World all that often but it seems to happen quite regularly.

I did?
So that's the reason I asked for the link FF kindly supplied?
You know a lot about a post that isn't there.

[Pinback]

crap... let's forget it

Does anyone have figures on the correlation between homosexuality and having fewer children? Purely as a guess, I could imagine such a link being surprisingly small.

If this were the case, then there needs only to be a minor correlation between homosexuality and kin survival for any gene for homosexuality to be functionally adaptive.