More military stuff

[Tubby Isaacs]

We did this in some depth on the other board but

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,2271362,00.html

Of all the inequalities between public schools and comprehensives, I wouldn't personally have put having the CCF as the most important. How to hold a gun didn't come up in my Oxbridge paper.

Among other glaring things, this is hugely inefficient. There's something called the TA which already exists which might be used to bring schools together, if we're hell bent on having more cadets. No doubt a report will come out in five years time and suggest this.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

More military stuff

Someone I work with is with the Royal Navy Reservists and teaches recruits how to keep themselves, and their quarters, clean (pretty important when you're on a boat with 200 other men and sharing your bunk with other men on a shift basis). Not to point too fine a point on it, he says some teenage recruits literally have to be taught how to wash themselves properly.

[Tubby Isaacs]

More military stuff

I see I messed up the link. Still, make up the story for yourself from the following clues:

Reconnect public with military
Discipline bad in comprehensives
Most cadet forces are in schools Brown likes, eg grammars and private schools

And it can be dressed up in some "equality" talk.

[DCI Harry Batt]

More military stuff

Interesting, particularly in the light of this year's NUT conference voting that:

Conference therefore:
(i) Congratulates colleagues in the Educational Institute of Scotland for their decision in 2007 to oppose military recruitment in Scottish schools;

(ii) Agrees to actively oppose military recruitment activities in schools across England and Wales.

[Tubby Isaacs]

More military stuff

The NUT are more of a force in primary than secondary schools, aren't they? So I don't know how much effect their position will have.

But I can't imagine much active enthusiasm for this and it might perish purely through lack of interest. Even in private schools, where there's greater militarism and a tacit understanding that you have to do some extra-curricular work as part of normal duties, it's quite hard to get serving teachers to do this nonsense. It's the sort of thing they try and put on the new teachers, and you get the ridiculous situation of inferior teachers being recruited because they're prepared to do the CCF.

I hope this won't be tolerated in state schools.

[DCI Harry Batt]

More military stuff

They have about 250,000 of a bit under 400,000 schoolteachers in total, I think. So they must have a fair amount of pull in secondary schools as well.

[Tubby Isaacs]

More military stuff

Ah good. I didn't know they were anything like that big.

[DCI Harry Batt]

More military stuff

The biggest teaching union in Europe, so they say.

[Anton Gramscescu]

More military stuff

Really? I haven't seen They on the new board yet.

(it's the one joke he's presumably always been waiting for and he's not here to enjoy it...)

[Paul S]

More military stuff

Not to point too fine a point on it, he says some teenage recruits literally have to be taught how to wash themselves properly.

I am in the TA and I can vouch for this. when I did my basic training we were shown - literally how to wash ourselves. By this I mean all the blokes were there and this big Sergeant took his top off and started to show us how to wash our bodies, face and armpits. He then took off his trousers and pants and showed us how to wash feet, toes, legs, arshole and wedding tackle. He made the point that if you don't keep your bollocks clean then you could get a fungus growing on it and all the problems that would entail. We were then shown some pretty graphic pictures of some wedding tackle that had been affected by fungus - I nearly puked at these pictures.

Teenagers really do need to be shown how to wash themselves propely, although to be fair, so did teenagers 50 or 100 years ago.

[Paul S]

More military stuff

Just to add:

I think young people in Britain get a really hard time. If you go back 100 years ago gang violence was a real problem in London and people were afraid of violent crime and youths in the streets. Nothing has changed but do you know something - we have some fantastic youths coming through. There are some really brilliant lovely young people coming through in this country who care and want to be part of Britain. I get really angry with people who continually denigrate youngsters in the UK and say they weren't as good as X generation or Y were 30 years ago.

This doesn't mean they don't need things such as the CCF or TA. But lay off young people and give them a chance - you might be surprised.

[Tubby Isaacs]

More military stuff

Nice action, Paul.

Another problem with this tendency to seek military discipline for civilians (see also "bootcamps" circa 1995) is that the situations are completely different. Someone already signed up to the army is wholly different to someone who can walk away at any time. The army likes to cite some of its success with young offenders (fair enough because not many other organisations do much good with them, even if I wouldn't choose to have ex-cons carrying guns near me) but again there's an incentive to avoid prison there. What exactly is the incentive for anyone else to stand and take shit?

[Guest]

More military stuff

Antonio Gramsci wrote:

Really? I haven't seen They on the new board yet.

He walked off because people were slagging Bolton for putting out a reserve team against Sporting Lisbon.

[beak]

More military stuff

vital update on the military recruitment front in today's manchester evening news postbag:

Some students at Manchester University said a loud 'no' to recruitment for the armed forces. What a pity they don't also say a loud no to drug and alcohol abuse, sleeping around and sexual diseases.
- M. Naine, Levenshulme

[Ginger Yellow]

More military stuff

"Some students at Manchester University said a loud 'no' to recruitment for the armed forces. What a pity they don't also say a loud no to drug and alcohol abuse, sleeping around and sexual diseases."

That's exactly what they're doing, surely.