Bradford and Bingley

[NHH]

Bradford and Bingley

Is it worth crowing over the fact that all the fucked-up banks were all mutuals at one stage, and should have stayed that way?

Also, John Lewis's profits will be down, but they don't rely on capital markets for funding because of the way they're owned, so they're in reasonably good shape.

Ownership matters, kids.

[ursus arctos]

Bradford and Bingley

The House just voted down the TARP (aka the 700 billion bailout).

If you thought the markets were volatile today . . .

[caja-dglh]

Bradford and Bingley

Politics sucks. They started switching votes, and moved against as everyone wanted to be perceived that way.

Where do we go from here?

[caja-dglh]

Bradford and Bingley

Answer appears to be a second vote on it, and some serious kickings behind the scenes.

[ursus arctos]

Bradford and Bingley

No doubt that is what the ultimate outcome will be, but this nonsense could well delay the Senate vote for another day.

Dow down 600 points on the news.

[caja-dglh]

Bradford and Bingley

Rosh Hashanah already blamed by the GOP, meaning that the vote was rushed.

[ursus arctos]

Bradford and Bingley

Let's see how that goes down with their Likudnik friends . . .

Rosh Hashanah, btw.

[caja-dglh]

Bradford and Bingley

I am meant to be in class, but my sincere apologies. I only learned the holiday this year, as I have two days off for it.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Bradford and Bingley

Is there any reason it has to be decided today, or am I missing something?

[caja-dglh]

Bradford and Bingley

Well, there are a number of reasons.

They are already delaying recess for campaigning. There are a number of religious holidays that cause problems, and they need to solve this asap. They aren't likely to be flexible with the recess for very long.

[WOM]

Bradford and Bingley

I think there's a point at which the declining stock market (and its attendant repercussions) will make any bailout irrelevant as a catastrophe-avoidance tool.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Bradford and Bingley

They can recall parliament just like we can, can't we?

[caja-dglh]

Bradford and Bingley

In the middle of a presidential campaign, it is far from the best case for them, and would be received very poorly. The vote is due early November, so it really doesn't fit well as far as timing a problem.

The stock market is falling in anticipation or failure of this bailout. 23bps off the 10yr is huge, equities are sort of holding up, the VIX has gone insane.

[ursus arctos]

Bradford and Bingley

Linke, absolutely no offense (or offence) taken. I know that not every goy on here grew up with a deep appreciation for the High Holy Days.

I'm surprised that Rove hasn't tied the problem to Eid. He's losing his touch.

Tubby, they've already called special sessions all weekend and passed special procedural rules to get this vote done. There isn't a lot more that they can do in the very short term, especially given the religious sensitivities involved.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Bradford and Bingley

Sure, it'll be badly received but I can't accept something of this importance can be passed after about a week of debate.

[ursus arctos]

Bradford and Bingley

Tubby, a week is WAY too long.

[caja-dglh]

Bradford and Bingley

They screwed up the vote, then started debating on commemorative coin issuance.

Potentially $700bn of them with Paulson on looking tired, perhaps.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Bradford and Bingley

Harold Wilson might agree with you.

No doubt it's a lot of debate time but it isn't a lot of time.

[ursus arctos]

Bradford and Bingley

Roll Call here.

[ursus arctos]

Bradford and Bingley

Barney Frank nails it (again).

Needless to say, McCain hasn't said a word.

[Bruno]

Bradford and Bingley

I assume this means that a more left-wing version of the bill gets passed now on a party line vote? (assuming Bush signs it?)

[nefertiti]

Bradford and Bingley

Unlikely.

Paul Krugman explains whyhere

Here's the money quote.

But putting myself in Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi’s shoes, I’d look at it this way: the Democrats could start over, with a bailout plan that is, say, centered on purchases of preferred stock and takeovers of failing firms — basically, a plan clearly focused on recapitalizing the financial sector, with nationalization where necessary. That’s what the plan should have looked like.

Maybe such a plan would have passed Congress; and maybe, just maybe Bush would have signed on; Paulson is certainly desperate for a deal.

But such a plan would have had next to no Republican votes — and the Republicans would have demagogued against it full tilt. And the Democratic leadership cannot, cannot, be seen to have sole ownership of this stuff.

So that, I think, is why it had to be done this way. I don’t like it, and I don’t like the plan, but I see the constraints under which Dodd, Frank, Pelosi, and Reid were operating.

[ursus arctos]

Bradford and Bingley

I think it's much too early to make predictions at this point. Also think that "left wing" and "right wing" aren't particularly useful labels in this particular debate.

What seems clear is that a number of people on both sides of the aisle have no clue about the seriousness of the situation, and are perfectly willing to try to score minor political points while their constituents' jobs and savings are being destroyed.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Bradford and Bingley

Doesn't there come a point where out and out fear of the unknown abyss trumps party politics though?

[ursus arctos]

Bradford and Bingley

One would have thought so, but a lot of people thought we were there a week ago.

This is yet another illustration of the degree to which the GOP has been taken over by fundamentalist demagogues.