Speaking of going to Canada

[WOM]

Speaking of going to Canada

Speaking as an unarmed Canadian, I can tell you that one of the things that gets most deeply under my skin (and I'm confident that I'm not alone in this) is when I find that my country is being used as a way-station or a backup plan.

I'm truly happy when people come here to make a go of it. But I feel myself turning quickly when I hear that people came here to make their fortune, but they plan to retire to the 'old country' where they can live like a king on a fraction of what it would cost here.

Or that Canada's nice, and easy to get into, but the real plan is to go to the US. We're just, you know, a bus stop on the way.

The last time Israel decided to bomb Lebanon into the stone age, tens of thousands of 'Canadians' were demanding Canada's help to get out safely. These Canadians of Convenience simply got their citizenship to establish a right to residency, and then carried on with their lives until the situation demanded they leave.

To me, it's an insult to everyone who treats this country as a first priority and not part of a safety net to be used as needed.

[ursus arctos]

Speaking of going to Canada

For several years in the late 40s and early 50s, my mother worked in a "Displaced Persons" camp in Bavaria whose population was mostly comprised of Central European adolescents and young adults who had been separated from their families by the horrors of that war (in many cases, her charges were the sole survivor of their entire extended family). One of her primary goals was to get them refuge somewhere, and it used to drive her absolutely nuts when they would refuse a country like Canada, Australia or New Zealand because they were "holding out for the El Dorado of the US".

That experience has obviously coloured my views on this issue too.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Speaking of going to Canada

I must admit I've never met any Canadians of Convenience, though I wouldn't deny they exist. My experience of Americans who moved here has been wholeheartedly positive. It's often forgotten that many more US Citizens who weren't draft dodgers fled here in the 60s than those who were. Three of my closest friends fall into that category, two arrived the week after Kent State. One was a VMI grad who'd done his service; the two others students — one female, the other 4F. They speak of that period with sadness and despair more than anything else and have each contributed more to Canada — in the arts, community service and academia respectively — than most people I know, and they are not untypical in that respect.

[Reed John]

Speaking of going to Canada

Whereas I would argue that public opinion led those leading the war to that realization. It certainly wasn't part of their original assessment nor the vast majority of their strategy before the very end.

I recall reading that as early as 1966 and 1967, Johnson and many of the top generals knew - or had the evidence available to them such that there was no excuse not to know - that there was no real chance to win in the sense of the South Vietnamese regime defeating the North. And yet they pressed on anyway until 1975. The attrition strategy persued by Westmoreland was stupid on its face.

[ursus arctos]

Speaking of going to Canada

The evidence existed, the political will to use it did not.

Amor, I'm not asserting that the people I have issues with were anything like the majority. I like to think that I could have been one of the people you mention.

[Reed John]

Speaking of going to Canada

I see.

I don't disagree that opposition to the draft was a big part of the opposition to the war in general, but I don't know how much of an impact the people that went to Canada had within that cause. I'm not being entirely rhetorical - I really don't know how much impact they had, I've not studied that - but I would imagine that the people that went to jail, Mohammed Ali in particular, probably had a bigger impact.

I agree that if another country lets you in when you're in trouble, you owe it to that country to stick around and become a productive member of that community.

Which is why I'm not really comfortable with seeing so many Mexican-Americans support Mexico when the US plays them in soccer. But of course, that's only soccer.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Speaking of going to Canada

Ursus: No, I know. I'm surprised that's all. I've always found expat Americans — including your good self — representative of the very best intentions, ideas and inclinations of the USA. (I realise residents of Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan and a few other places may have quite a different PoV.)

[Amor de Cosmos]

Speaking of going to Canada

I don't disagree that opposition to the draft was a big part of the opposition to the war in general, but I don't know how much of an impact the people that went to Canada had within that cause.

Only a part and it's probably impossible to estimate how much. The incremental effect, and power, of resistance was distributed through their families as much as the individuals themselves. When your kid hasn't been home for Thanksgiving for a few years maybe you start to question your support for the war that's keeping him away.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Speaking of going to Canada

Fair dos, ua, I understand what you mean now, cheers.

[ursus arctos]

Speaking of going to Canada

Cheers to you and Amor. I genuinely appreciate being forced to think critically about this kind of thing.