The perception of Latinos between Europe and the US.

[Bored Of Education]

I have a Puerto Rican friend who posts a lot about racism against Latinos in the US where he now lives. I have to admit that, initially, I had a bit of a cognitive dissonance about this as, previously, I had just thought of Latinos (and Hispanics) as just European immigrants over there and not a different race, as such, in a land of immigrants. The idea that they were racially/ethnically different from Irish/Polish/Italian immigrants didn't occur to me. He can trace his genealogy back to Spain and the Basque region, in particular, within living memory. I can tell that he feels that attitudes against them are similar if not the same as attitudes against African-Americans and Asians. Am I solely wrong amongst European posters in the respect of not realising the level of racism of racism against those of European descent extant in the US and can US posters cast a little more light on this?

[ursus arctos]

Bored, I’m not sure I really get what you are asking, but yes, there is very significant anti-Latino animus and discrimination in the US. And to those so inclined Creole or even “pure” Spanish heritage will not make any difference at all.

[San Bernardhinault]

I'm not sure I'm in any position to answer the question properly. But it seems you're expressing surprise at anti-hispanic/latino sentiment. Of which there's a ton. It's proper racism - not the same as anti-black racism, which itself is not the same as anti-asian racism. But it's clear and obvious racism both in personal behaviour, in government policy, in employment prospects, in all the structural stuff.

[Patrick Thistle]

I've seen this. Can't remember where it was on one of my road trips but there were references to language on some crudely produced posters or that basically amounted to 'We don't speak Spanish here (and neither should you)'.

Plus every Latino person gets called a Mexican as a matter of course.

[Bored Of Education]

Thank you all. I suppose I am surprised in thinking about it that immigrants from Europe but via South America are so discriminated against from, essentially, immigrants from Europe whose descendants went straight to America. I mean, obviously, seeing the anti-Latino discrimination - even before Trump - which is culminating in the Honduran caravan reaction, I am not really surprised as such. I suppose until I heard from my Puerto Rican friend who is now a partner in a law firm in Milwaukee about his feelings of discrimination - however indirect, I didn't realise how much it was, as SB says, 'proper racism' in the way that you are discriminated against because of how you look and how your accent sounds. The juxtaposition with Europe, well, my part of it, is that his sister lives in London and probably would not draw attention - to be fair, in most places in Britain - until she opened her mouth and, even then, most would regard her as an American or Spanish and, even in Brexit times, the latter wouldn't cause much reaction. The fact that she is Puerto Rican would probably be regarded as of interest or, at least, a novelty but, of course, that is down to lack of proximity.

I don't know whether that makes the opening post any clearer. Indeed, I suppose I was just expressing my own ignorance about quite how discriminated-against all Latinos are in the States. I shouldn't be surprised that a shared European origin means nothing as, of course, the British can be just as prejudiced against the Poles and, historically, the Irish who were, of course, the original British.

[Bored Of Education]

Just to prove me wrong.

[ursus arctos]

Bored, it sounds as if you have seriously under-estimated the degree to which skin colour, surname and accent are "triggers" for racism here.

A "white" Galician named Garcia will be the subject of some discrimination even if he speaks English without an accent. As a general rule, the volume of that discrimination will increase as the number of markers of his "otherness" increase.

The "European heritage" thing is a complete red herring. Many of the most racist people I've encountered here are second and third generation immigrants from Europe who manage to see no connection whatsoever between their own family's immigration history and that of new arrivals. Sometimes they do that on the basis of skin colour, but it also involves fantasies about having "followed all the rules" and "speaking English" from the time they got off the boat.

[Bored Of Education]

Oh, yeah, I appreciate that I have completely underestimated it. I have, of course, heard a lot of anti-Latino prejudice voiced over there and, perhaps due that which PT identified and the "Mexicanisation" of any Latino immigrants, thought it was more towards their next door neighbours (not that that isn't bad enough). I suppose, as much as any current surprise, my friend's posts just made me ruminate further on the ludicrous nature of such racism - even taking into account the internal (lack of) logic of discrimination in general.

[ursus arctos]

Very much so.

Attempting to impose any kind of rational framework onto racism is a fool's errand.

The "Mexicanisation" of all Spanish-surnamed people is a doddle for a country in which there have been multiple cases of Sikhs being murdered as "Islamic terrorists".

[adams house cat]

Latinos in the US are seen as 'new' immigrants. This despite the fact that there have been Mexican-Americans in the South West from the very beginning. White Americans don't differentiate between Puerto Ricans and Central/South Americans. Black Americans view them as a threat.

A friend from the South West, a lawyer of Mexican heritage going back to the 16th century visited England and when he came back he asked me what a (please excuse my use of this term) 'paki' was' He was surprised when I explained it as he was called that twice when he was in England.

[Satchmo Distel]

An article on some of the relevant history:

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/168143

[Flynnie]

I have a friend who is an upper-class Madrileña and has lived in California for years now, and she is more than a little irritated at being confused for Latino/Mexican/Whatever. It’s constant, as it is for Californians of Basque/Spanish/Portuguese descent (of which there are many.

[Felicity, I guess so]

Coming at it from the other end, and confirming ursus’ point about racism n logic: I used to find it absurd hearing relatively dark skinned Spaniards/Italians/French people spouting anti-Arab racism but after 9/11 they can just make it about Islam.