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    tony

    Questions for our US posters about the word "tony". I've encountered several instances of writers in the US using the word "tony" to describe affluent (or very affluent?) neighbourhoods/residential areas. I have never heard that adjective in the UK, ever. Not sure it exists in British English.

    So, two questions:

    1. What exactly does it mean? Are the connotations purely economic, as in "where the wealthy live", or does it have some more nuanced, partly cultural or political, connotations?

    2. What's the etymology? Is it related to the noun "tone", as in perhaps "having a good tone", or does it have some other derivation altogether?

    #2
    It crops up in The Toronto Star about twice a week. I abhor it. Not sure of the etymology, but yes, it carries a whiff up 'upward condescension'. It's meant to imply 'the rich sort', chi-chi, 'better folks than you'. i.e. "She was a fixture of the ladies who lunch in tony Rosedale". It's awful.

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      #3
      OED says originally tone-y.

      Having a high or fashionable tone; high-toned, stylish; ‘swell’.

      1877 R. J. Burdette Rise & Fall of Mustache 177 He's a toney old cyclopedia on the patter.
      1880 Harper's Mag. Jan. 209/2 He just put on heaps of style..you know—regular tony.
      1886 Pall Mall Gaz. 24 Sept. 5/1 Nevern-square, with its comfortable and, as the Americans have it, ‘tony’ residences.

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        #4
        It is supposed to be derived from "tone", though the exact path is unclear.

        One of ms ursus' colleagues was very fond of the adjective "high tone", which she claimed was widely used in Philippine English for the same concept.

        The connotation depends on where it is being used. In aspirational "lifestyle" pieces, it will be seen as something to be coveted. In other contexts it can definitely have the connotation that WOM suggests.

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          #5
          Thanks all for your interesting responses.

          Tony Soprano's ill-gotten revenues allowed him to live with his family in a "tony" area.

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            #6
            Thanks for asking, EEG. I've been meaning to ask exactly this for a couple of years, because it's such a weird sounding term.

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              #7
              I should add that I've always read it as implying old-money, WASP-y, and a sort of well-bred classy, not at all nouveau-riche. And it meaning the same thing when used both positively and negatively.

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                #8
                Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                I should add that I've always read it as implying old-money, WASP-y, and a sort of well-bred classy, not at all nouveau-riche. And it meaning the same thing when used both positively and negatively.
                I'd agree with that. The Star is a left-leaning, middle-class paper, and they only really use it pejoratively.

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                  #9
                  It's a bit strange, because it does have that connotation, but still needs to be within the possible grasp of the aspirational consumers being targeted (in the positive version).

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                    #10
                    In today's Globe & Mail:

                    THE OBAMAS - Where the package was sent: Washington, where former Democratic president Barack Obama lives in the tony neighbourhood of Kalorama Heights.
                    Staff/Reuters

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                      #11
                      Not very old money or WASPy that

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                        #12
                        It's New York rhyming slang. Tony - pony and cart - shart - people who look at you like they've just sharted.

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                          #13
                          Also in the 'drives me bonkers when newspapers do this' category, putting "cool" before any 'shocking' amount of money. Today it's "you can buy an entire town in New Zealand for a cool $2.8 million"; but normally it's "four-bedroom, three bath home in Rosedale is on the market for a cool $4.3 million dollars". What the fuck is 'cool' supposed to be telling me? It's a good price? It's steep? People shouldn't spend their money like this when others are scraping just to get by? I suspect it's the third.

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                            #14
                            Confusingly, when one of the UK's best loved Tonys wanted to appear more tony, he would style himself Anthony H.

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                              #15
                              So it goes.

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                                #16
                                Is there a preference for Anthony over Tony in some parts of the US?

                                The first Americans of that name that jump to my mind are either fictional - Soprano, Corleone, Manero - or Anglicized stage names, like Tony Curtis and Anthony Quinn. I realize I might be having a brainfart that excludes somebody really obvious.

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                                  #17
                                  I did not read this thread.

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                                    #18

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                                      #19
                                      This is my very first introduction to the word tony as anything other than a shortened version of the name Antony/Anthony.

                                      Interesting, thank you.

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                        Is there a preference for Anthony over Tony in some parts of the US?

                                        The first Americans of that name that jump to my mind are either fictional - Soprano, Corleone, Manero - or Anglicized stage names, like Tony Curtis and Anthony Quinn. I realize I might be having a brainfart that excludes somebody really obvious.
                                        I missed this at the time, but would say that it is complicated.

                                        For people of my generation and region, the name is very much associated with Italian Americans, in part because St. Anthony of Padua has a high profile in many Italian American communities (both because of his association with Italy and his role as the patron saint of lost articles, which appealed to the greater sense of loss than many immigrants felt and feel). The shift from the Italian Antonio to the English Anthony was a sign of assimilation and took root very quickly here.

                                        Among that demographic, shortening the name to Tony was ubiquitous and we now have Tony Soprano to serve as an avatar of that phenomenon.

                                        That shortening, while not unknown among other Anthonys in the US, is noticeably less common, in part because of the association of Tony with mobsters, barbers, actors and other people that US WASPs would generally look down upon. An example of this is the very common association here of FIAT automobiles with the phrase Fix It Again Tony, in which the name is viewed as immediately identifying the person as an Italian American mechanic specialising in downmarket vehicles.

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                                          #21
                                          Also, what's with the pronunciation of the "th" in Anthony?

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                                            #22
                                            What th in Anthony?

                                            It's Ant-hony

                                            Phonetically, ant(h)unny

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                                              #23
                                              What's with keeping the "h" silent?

                                              I think that part of the divide is due to the popularity of the name among non-native English speakers here, with the voiced "h" making it clear that they had fully adopted the "American" version.

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                                                #24
                                                It's Ant'ny in NJ.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                                  What's with keeping the "h" silent?

                                                  I think that part of the divide is due to the popularity of the name among non-native English speakers here, with the voiced "h" making it clear that they had fully adopted the "American" version.
                                                  It's not silent.

                                                  It's whispered.

                                                  It's not Ant Onny

                                                  Ant (breath) Onny

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