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Antisemitism and contemporary politics

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    The history of Edmondstown golf club. I'm not sure what cork's jewish community was supposed to do.

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      Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
      You’ve cracked that joke before.
      Guilty as charged yer honor. I try to be original, snappy and mildly amusing. See also BBC Staple'Old Jews Telling Jokes. 2 out of 3 ain't bad etc

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        You want Jewish jokes? Here's Jewish jokes: http://www.awordinyoureye.com/

        They're compiled by one of my old managers, a man I found "difficult" for work for.

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          So Right wing Labour MP and Friend of Joan Ryan Siobhan McDonaugh was on Radio 4 this morning saying that "anti-capitalism is antisemitism" because Jews are likely to be rich capitalists. Not only does she show an extraordinary ignorance of Jewish and socialist history. From Karl Marx and Rosa Luxemburg to Kurt Eisner and Walter Benjamin, the Bund Vorwaerts, the ignorance is shows is criminal. In Britain it ignores the legacy of the Jewish left in and out of the Labour party. Eleanor Marx Leonard Woolf Manny Shinwell Ralph Miliband, Alf Dubs, Harold Pinter, Rhea Wolfson. it also appears to be in breach of the IHRA guidelines: "Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews"

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            I think there's something to be said for the lack of a vibrant British Jewish culture turning this debate ever dumber. I find it difficult to believe anybody in the US Democratic Party could get away with saying such a thing, because, like, they know who Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky are and that they're Jewish.

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              John mcternan even more right wing than McDonaugh if such a thing is possible pushing the same line about ( Jewish) David Graeber and the Occupy movement - is it conspiracy theory to suggest two right wing non Jews are getting together
              [URL]https://twitter.com/michaelrosenyes/status/1102516123998846976?s=21[/URL]

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                John Harris is also at it

                [URL]https://twitter.com/johnrentoul/status/1102523430891671553?s=21[/URL]

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                  So capitalism is such an irretrievably fucked economic system that even with its leaders' best intentions, inequality and misery only grow?

                  Interesting insight there, Johns.

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                    Strange when the left of the Labour party used to analyse the systemic failure of capitalism- often using the tools of Jewish political scientists or writers like Zygmaunt Bauman or Naomi Klein they are dismissed as Marxists. So It looks as though the aim is not to criticise capitalism at all.

                    Of course Tony Blair for whom John Rentoul shilled for many years was able to enrich himself from an immensely rich self serving elite who are also extremely antisemitic- the House of Saud.

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                      I'm intrigued to see how far this is going to go. Tomorrow - people who have allotments are anti semitic. Wednesday - people who have beards. Thursday - anyone who has ever been in a Mosque, for any reason.

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                        i think this is more strategic than that. This isn't just about getting rid of Corbyn. It's about silencing all criticism of capitalism.

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                          You're making it sound like there is a plan. Belief in the existence of plans is anti semitic.

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                            Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                            i think this is more strategic than that. This isn't just about getting rid of Corbyn. It's about silencing all criticism of capitalism.
                            I guess this is why everyone defends Churchill so vigorously cos they're just out there rehashing "Zionism versus Bolshevism" for the 21st century.

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                              Originally posted by sw2borshch View Post
                              Ah, I was being obtuse, cheers.
                              Every time somebody uses the word obtuse like that, I get a Family Guy image in my head. And I hardly even watch Family Guy... but that Shawshank thing they did was brilliant.

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                                Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                                So It looks as though the aim is not to criticise capitalism at all.
                                Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite and Bernie Sanders has a problem with women and black people.

                                There's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on at the moment.

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                                  This, by the way, is really worth reading:
                                  https://averypublicsociologist.blogs...-semitism.html

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                                    Someone I've known for about 10 years who is a Jewish Labour Councillor in Merseyside and leading light in Jewish Voice for Labour has been suspended for making a weak pun which has been alleged to be anti-semitic. The full text of the speech is here, and it's a model of even-handedness. This is fucking ludicrous.

                                    Obviously, the even more ludicrous Riley has rowed in against her; apparently, she has also had the temerity to use the Martin Niemoller poem using anti-zionism as the trope, as if the point of the poem is that the Jews must be defended at all times, rather than injustice must be defended, even if one isn't a member of a targeted group.

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                                      In the meantime, a whole bunch of Labour MPs (many, perhaps most, non-Jewish) have written an open letter demanding that Jewish Labour Movement be regarded as "THE (my emphasis) legitimate representative of Jews in the Labour party". Yep, cos they all look and think the same don't they? More dangerous "self-hating Jew"/"wrong type of Jew" stuff.
                                      Last edited by E10 Rifle; 06-03-2019, 12:52.

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                                        Indeed - the attack on a member of Jewish Voice for Labour is critical, as it's entire existence as an organisation made up _wholly_ of Jewish members of the Labour party (unlike the Jewish Labour Movement) who aren't going batshit about anti-semitism means they have to be attacked as self-hating to the point of being actually anti-semitic about, er, themselves. Because the only other analysis is that what divides these organisations is the issue of defending Palestinian rights, and that would never do to be a well-understood and reported on element of this.

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                                          Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post

                                          Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite and Bernie Sanders has a problem with women and black people.

                                          There's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on at the moment.
                                          You seems to be staring at it.

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                                            Sorry, I was being sarcastic, and it doesn't carry well on the interwebs.

                                            Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-semite and Bernie Sanders doesn't have a problem with women and black people. What they do have in common is that they are a threat for big money interests.

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                                              The very excellent Rebecca Vilkomerson on the attacks on Ilhan Omar https://www.newsweek.com/ilhan-omar-...source=Twitter

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                                                Lots of great stuff being shared on here which I hope to read shortly, thanks.

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                                                  Excellent piece by Zionist Peter Beinert in the Guardian

                                                  As David Harris, head of the American Jewish Committee, put it last year: “To deny the Jewish people, of all the peoples on earth, the right to self-determination surely is discriminatory.”

                                                  All the peoples on earth? The Kurds don’t have their own state. Neither do the Basques, Catalans, Scots, Kashmiris, Tibetans, Abkhazians, Ossetians, Lombards, Igbo, Oromo, Uyghurs, Tamils and Québécois, nor dozens of other peoples who have created nationalist movements to seek self-determination but failed to achieve it.

                                                  Yet barely anyone suggests that opposing a Kurdish or Catalan state makes you an anti-Kurdish or anti-Catalan bigot. It is widely recognised that states based on ethnic nationalism – states created to represent and protect one particular ethnic group – are not the only legitimate way to ensure public order and individual freedom. Sometimes it is better to foster civic nationalism, a nationalism built around borders rather than heritage: to make Spanish identity more inclusive of Catalans or Iraqi identity more inclusive of Kurds, rather than carving those multiethnic states up.
                                                  he also touches on the long links between antisemitism and Zionism.


                                                  Of course it’s theoretically possible to distinguish anti-Zionism from antisemitism, just as it’s theoretically possible to distinguish segregationism from racism,” writes Stephens. Just as virtually all segregationists are also racists, he suggests, virtually all anti-Zionists are also antisemites. You rarely find one without the other.

                                                  But that claim is empirically false. In the real world, anti-Zionism and antisemitism don’t always go together. It is easy to find antisemitism among people who, far from opposing Zionism, enthusiastically embrace it.

                                                  Before Israel’s creation, some of the world leaders who most ardently promoted Jewish statehood did so because they did not want Jews in their own countries. Before declaring, as foreign secretary in 1917, that Britain “view[s] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”, Arthur Balfour supported the 1905 Aliens Act, which restricted Jewish immigration to the United Kingdom.

                                                  And two years after his famous declaration, Balfour said Zionism would “mitigate the age-long miseries created for western civilisation by the presence in its midst of a Body [the Jews] which it too long regarded as alien and even hostile, but which it was equally unable to expel or to absorb”.
                                                  Last edited by Nefertiti2; 07-03-2019, 07:41.

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                                                    I liked, among much else in the article, this bit:

                                                    "...many of the same Jewish leaders who call national self-determination a universal right are quite comfortable denying it to Palestinians."

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