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[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

By chance... or pure charisma (yeah, right)... or that my new job's given me a billion dollar stud aura (yeah, etc)... or that I simply happen to bump into Bacchus' regulars, I met a woman who does this.

She gave me her business card with link to her webpage. 24 yrs old, fit like a Tactical G Panini masturbation card. Very charming, beautiful face.

Explained that she loves sex, that that's the main reason she's doing it, that she's aware of the many looks se gets at any time when out, and why not make money one it.

Right or wrong?

(I've never been with a pro')

[Andy C]

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A billion dollars seems a bit steep for getting your Escort serviced, even if it includes parts and labour.

[Femme Folle]

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I would never buy a Ford.

[My Name Is Ian]

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I would hazard a guess that she says this:

she loves sex, that that's the main reason she's doing it

To all the boys. It wouldn't bother me that much whether it was true or not, but I wouldn't be able to see past the, well, monetary exchange side of things.

[Tubby Isaacs]

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Isn't that illegal in Sweden?

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

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Usually yes, but not if she does it because she loves sex.

[Bill Poster]

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even if it includes parts and labour.

You'd want parts and labour included in the deal wouldn't you?!

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

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Tubby Isaacs wrote:

Isn't that illegal in Sweden?

To offer and sell it is not, to pay for it is.

[My Name Is Ian]

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There's a joke about Escorts normally being automatic transmission rather than manual (or vice versa) here, but I'm not sure that I'm capable of it.

[Tubby Isaacs]

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Lord M, LOL.

Are you the artist formerly known as 7th Baron Bartok, by the way?

[Tubby Isaacs]

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I was assuming that if it was sold, then paying might come into it, Ganja.

[My Name Is Ian]

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To offer and sell it is not, to pay for it is.

Isn't that the opposite to this country?

[Tubby Isaacs]

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Selling isn't illegal here. Solliciting is though, as are other things related to running prostitutes, like living off immoral earnings and running a brothel.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

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Yes I'm Bartok! I decided to re-name myself after a literary character who was young, idle and rich, by way of a cheeky little hint to the Gods who have day-to-day responsibility for the details of reincarnation policy.

[Tubby Isaacs]

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Ah, welcome back.

[tracteurgarcon]

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Pietro Paolo Virdis wrote:

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

Isn't that illegal in Sweden?

To offer and sell it is not, to pay for it is.

So if she solicits you for money, you do the deed and then run out without paying it's all legal?

[My Name Is Ian]

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I'm no solicitor (or, indeed, solicitee), but I think that she may be breaking the law there. Unless you're counting some sort of breach of verbal contract.

[Brandenburger Toro]

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Where do we stand?

Here's a thread I was glad I started on the old board.

In brief, I think two things. Firstly, almost every sex worker says some variation of what you were told, Z, they love it, it's a lifestyle choice, whatever. Even where this is genuinely the case, their existence acts to legitimise in the minds of clients and the authorities all the millions of smuggled women, drug addicts, people in delusional, abusive relationships, economically desperate women, entrapped and coerced women. Legalisation accepts that a whole shitlot of that is effectively going to become legal in the grey areas. And dealings in the prostitution industry, even with particular people you know to be clean happy and uncoerced, adds value to all aspects of that industry. Even if you're not personally paying money to those who smuggle women, get them addicted to smack, and turn them out on the street all hours, you're helping to create the economic climate in which they prosper.

Secondly, while it's a case I'm much more tentative about laying out, because I do think it's difficult to make formally, I am pretty certain that sex should not be the subject of economic exchange. There's a modern inclination to regard anything you can construct a market for as suitable for marketing. Some of my reasoning is laid out in that previous thread. But much of it I don't know quite how to express. As an ethicist, it's something I think about, and am reasonably sure my intuitions are right on. But I can't make a rigorous case at this point.

That said, I think it's the stronger aspect of what I think, and not only for myself. Most of the points I made towards the first argument might equally, or better, be made about certain widely available drugs. Yet I would be infinitely more reticent to engage the services of a prostitute than I am to use cocaine, much and all as I'm uneasy about that. And I think that's for reasons having to do with the second line of argument. much as I can't express it. I suspect that that isn't unusual.

[Tubby Isaacs]

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I made the argument you're making to Matt P once, and he tore me to shreds. I wish I could remember exactly how he argued it.

I don't accept that people who pay for sex to a prostitute working for herself out of her own flat, without a pimp, are contributing to all the really bad stuff you mention. Streetwalkers (who by the last estimate I saw, in Whitechapel, are 95% heroin/crack addicted, and many of the others are working for addicted partners) are going to carry on doing the same anyway. Where else can they go? How does their market overlap with the former sort?

I'm not sure I accept that women are smuggled and made addicted to drugs deliberately. That's likely to reduce their earning power massively. Drug dealers no doubt do approach sex workers because they've got a lot of money compared to the usual petty thieves they sell to.

I'd look to licence and provide healthcare for prostitutes, and make it much easier for them to report assaults, and promote exits for them much better than now.

[Tactical Genius]

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Pimpin aint easy.

[jason voorhees]

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Escorts are a real grey area in the USA. Basically, as long as you're paying for someone's time and company, and not sex, it's legal. However, whatever happens between two consenting adults in that time is their business.

[evilC]

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Sorry - just woke up.

[ursus arctos]

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I'm obliged to point out that while jv's summary of US law is true more often than not, this is a matter of state law in the US (and there are therefore 51 different "basic" rules) and even more so one dependent on how the local police force and prosecutor's office is feeling at the time in question.

[hobbes]

Escort Service

Firstly, almost every sex worker says some variation of what you were told, Z, they love it, it's a lifestyle choice, whatever

When I worked in a shop I smiled and was polite to the customers. Part of the job, innit?

Even where this is genuinely the case, their existence acts to legitimise in the minds of clients and the authorities all the millions of smuggled women, drug addicts, people in delusional, abusive relationships, economically desperate women, entrapped and coerced women. And dealings in the prostitution industry, even with particular people you know to be clean happy and uncoerced, adds value to all aspects of that industry. Even if you're not personally paying money to those who smuggle women, get them addicted to smack, and turn them out on the street all hours, you're helping to create the economic climate in which they prosper.

Not sure I go along with that in all but the most nebulous way. By that argument, any dealings in the wine trade (like buying a bottle of wine) tactily condones the smuggling of cheap alcohol from France. Buying a chicken albeit organic free range adds value to the battery farming industry and by eating a burger you're responsible for obesity in others.

I am pretty certain that sex should not be the subject of economic exchange.

Why is it different from any other manual work? Why is it different than being a sportsman? You're using your body and skills to earn a crust. I see no difference between that and bricklaying or playing football.

[Bruno]

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ursus arctos wrote:

I'm obliged to point out that while jv's summary of US law is true more often than not, this is a matter of state law in the US (and there are therefore 51 different "basic" rules) and even more so one dependent on how the local police force and prosecutor's office is feeling at the time in question.

And who would know better than Polar Bear, you've tried em ALL, am I right?! Up top! Which states had your favorite escorts? Which prosecutors gave you the hardest time?