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    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
    Satchmo, have you been to the Civil Rights Museum in Greensboro?

    It is the former Woolworth's and includes a portion of the original lunch counter (another portion is in DC). We highly recommend it, though it is of course not light entertainment.
    It wasn't on our route, unfortunately, but I have it in mind for future trips.

    Comment


      this thread is really worth reading

      and really horrible

      https://twitter.com/willtheanderson/status/1286629510566248449?s=20

      Comment


        Not sure if this has been mentioned on this or other threads.
        ​​​​​​https://amp.kansascity.com/news/loca...mpression=true

        And the person later died under suspicious circumstances.

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          Oh, well, that's alright then. Tom Cotton invites support for his bill to quash the 1619 Project by defending slavery as a "necessary evil."

          Don't know too much about this 1619 Project. I'm assuming it's better than the existing history curriculum, but does it have the cutting edge? I'd also assume that the fragmented* nature of US provision means that the places that need it the most would those least likely to get it.

          *Is that the word I need? I don't know much about the US education system either.

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            I can't see how that bill is constitutional. Teachers don't have First Amendment rights?

            Cotton has to do some awkward linguistic contortions to deny that he's justifying slavery. By analogy, was the Holocaust a necessary evil to produce international support for the creation of Israel (if you're arguing from a Zionist perspective)?

            He's also lying about the founding fathers. They did not regard slavery as a "necessary evil" but rather as their natural right based upon biological and cultural superiority.

            A curriculum that downplays slavery is by definition a white supremacist one.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
              I can't see how that bill is constitutional. Teachers don't have First Amendment rights?

              Cotton has to do some awkward linguistic contortions to deny that he's justifying slavery. By analogy, was the Holocaust a necessary evil to produce international support for the creation of Israel (if you're arguing from a Zionist perspective)?

              He's also lying about the founding fathers. They did not regard slavery as a "necessary evil" but rather as their natural right based upon biological and cultural superiority.

              A curriculum that downplays slavery is by definition a white supremacist one.
              Cheers. Yeah, you can justify anything as a necessary evil if you wait long enough and cherry-pick your outcomes.

              Is it unconstitutional if he doesn't seek to deny teachers the right to teach it, but the use of government funds to teach it - by banning them from buying materials and resources to teach stuff he doesn't like? If so, would that also go for teachers salaries, or would that be seen as in effect inhibiting freedom of expression? (And probably more importantly, does he any chance of getting it through, or is he playing to a gallery?)

              I just read the text of his bill. It's very... specific, isn't it? I wouldn't know whether to interpret that as spiteful, fearful or performative, but it made me wonder whether many bills introduced to the senate read like a Y7 persuasive writing exercise.

              Sorry, just realised how many of my posts are basically a string of questions! Grateful for any engagement/insight.

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                It is completely performative and has zero chance of passing.

                You are correct in assuming that denial of funding is much more likely to withstand constitutional scrutiny than an outright ban.

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                  Thanks, UA.

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                    There's a petition to save the choir if any of you want to sign?

                    (this story refers, but doesn't lead)>
                    ?6&
                    #@

                    https://www.thestar.co.uk/whats-on/t...atures-2925209

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Guy Profumo View Post
                      There's a petition to save the choir if any of you want to sign?

                      (this story refers, but doesn't lead)>
                      ?6&
                      #@

                      https://www.thestar.co.uk/whats-on/t...atures-2925209
                      What does this have to do with White Supremecy?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                        What does this have to do with White Supremecy?
                        I assume it's connected with Nef's twitter link above. The thread was a litany* of responses to the choir story that moved smoothly rapidly and seamlessly from "Bloody hell, it'll be guitars and tambourines," to "Send them back/burn them," style comments.

                        *Did you see what I did there?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                          What does this have to do with White Supremecy?
                          Ask Nef.

                          Comment


                            "Sit the dawgs on 'em, Bubba."

                            https://twitter.com/BillyCorben/status/1289961836264095744?s=20

                            Comment


                              This man is still employed?

                              https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ng-racial-slur

                              Comment


                                At a "Christian" university with a base salary of USD 4.75 million per year

                                Comment


                                  Doing some research into when the KKK have paraded in Florida. Most recent example found so far: 1978

                                  https://www.newspapers.com/clip/2844...3WbXIIg7lUoFBI

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                    I certainly hope so. If that story is accurate, he didn't use the word; he quoted it in asking players not to use it. He did nothing wrong.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Lymeswold Snork View Post

                                      I certainly hope so. If that story is accurate, he didn't use the word; he quoted it in asking players not to use it. He did nothing wrong.
                                      I'm not sure "he did nothing wrong" is quite accurate, but i agree this has a whiff of fake outrage about it.

                                      More worthy of outrage are Bill Clinton's comments when he gave a speech at the John Lewis funeral. I would like to know the thoughts of those on here?

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                                        I'm not sure "he did nothing wrong" is quite accurate, but i agree this has a whiff of fake outrage about it.
                                        It felt like very (very) poor judgement rather than supremacism, but I don't know the context.

                                        Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                                        More worthy of outrage are Bill Clinton's comments when he gave a speech at the John Lewis funeral. I would like to know the thoughts of those on here?
                                        Are you referring to the Stokely Carmichael section? Or the bit about having been president for 8 years and not having got around to making it better? I just skimmed through the transcript and for someone with Clinton's rep as an orator it stuck me as meandering tosh, mostly.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                          At a "Christian" university with a base salary of USD 4.75 million per year
                                          He used it in the context of telling players not to use it. That seems a bit clumsy, but not so bad by itself. But I suspect the players' anger about it reflects wider frustrations with the power imbalance in college football and the challenges of being Black on a predominantly white campus.*

                                          Iowa has had a bit of an upheaval lately as a bunch of Black players and ex-players have said that they didn't/don't feel comfortable there. It mostly focused on the now-departed S&C coach, and some of the examples were pretty clear cut, but I think this sort of thing is probably widespread in football and basketball. The coaches want discipline and unity and demand a lot of symbolic gestures of that like dress codes, hair style rules, social media restrictions, etc. Insofar as this causes some conflict with players, older coaches and fans have generally seen this as a "young-versus-old thing" and that the young people need to get on board with the program because they need to learn how to function in an organization. I suspect a lot of Black coaches have the same attitude. To some extent, it is a generational issue, and players probably do benefit from experience conforming to a lot of arbitrary rules. Football has a lot of rules like that. So do most jobs.

                                          But the Iowa situation illustrates how these things may represents a racial or cultural division that white people are frequently not aware of because they think their way of doing things is just the default.

                                          Hiring more Black and minority coaches would help, but they need to give the players more of a say in how their teams are run. The coaches are probably a lot more receptive to that than the NCAA is. The coaches want their players to be happy and say nice things about them to prospective recruits and boosters. The NCAA wants control.*




                                          *All of that may be about to change. Roger Sherman is one of the few writers that seems to understand how this works. Then again, there's been talk about the big schools breaking away from the NCAA for at least 40 years (when the CFB took control of TV rights from the NCAA). It hasn't happened even though it makes economic sense. Sherman argues that the big schools benefit from the patina of amateurism provided by the NCAA. But they've already separated themselves by offering "full cost of attendance" and will soon be compelled to let players profit off their name and likeness, so, like the Olympics, at some point, it will just more sense for them to try to take advantage of professionalism rather than continue to fight it.
                                          https://www.theringer.com/2020/8/3/2...otball-playoff


                                          I'm just coming to the realization that its all going to collapse. I can remember good times watching college sports in the past, but I have no hope of doing that much in the future. I think soon it's all going to turn to shit. It will be better for the top players in basketball and football, but definitely worse for everyone else, especially fans of the non-football/not-basketball sports. Hopefully, State College and Penn State can adapt and find other non-destructive things for people to do on the weekends.

                                          Then again, as an alum of an institution that spends way more on sports than seems prudent, I'm optimistic that this might force them/us to finally accept reality on this front.






                                          **TCU is one of a handful of smaller private universities that punches well above its weight in major D1 college football, and that has led many others to throw a fortune down a rat hole hoping to achieve the same thing.

                                          To some extent, universities throw money at sports - at whatever level they're trying to compete - because to do otherwise would be a radical departure from what their peers are doing. There are a few schools, especially smaller ones, that are looking into getting rid of sports, but it's remarkable how rare that still is.

                                          Business-minded people, have a tendency to rather be wrong along with everyone else than risk being wrong by themselves. The people on university boards are mostly business people and, increasingly, so are presidents and administrators, for better and worse.

                                          In this case, "being wrong" would be forgoing the chance to build an athletic department that can really help increase name recognition and "community engagement." Certainly, not many people outside of Texas would have heard of TCU if not for their football team (and unique mascot) and it helps connect alumni and the community. It also probably helps attract students. You and I might think that's a dumb reason to pick a university, but you and I are not TCU's target demographic. Nor were we when we were 17. But there's a lot more of people like them than people like us. That sounds more condescending and judgey than I want it to be, BTW.

                                          The value of that "marketing" varies from institution to institution, but I suspect the arms race of facilities and coaching salaries has now erased most of that value or exceeds it in most cases.

                                          It's an example of how capitalism is so-often self-defeating. The only value of some jobs - including some very high-paying jobs - is that they offset the efforts of competitors doing the same thing. If all parties could just agree to stand down, all that money and talent could go to something more productive. But they don't, so it doesn't. Perhaps if the US had a true university "system" and appropriately funded public education and research, universities would not be spending so much on marketing to survive in an ultimately self-defeating competition. My job doesn't really need to exist either, so I can't blame other people in jobs like that.

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by ChrisJ View Post

                                            Are you referring to the Stokely Carmichael section? Or the bit about having been president for 8 years and not having got around to making it better? I just skimmed through the transcript and for someone with Clinton's rep as an orator it stuck me as meandering tosh, mostly.
                                            Come on Chris, it was much more than meandering Tosh and you know it.

                                            Actually, Clinton was being incredibly Lucid and honest for a change, maybe it was being around like minded democratic Liberals and he got a little carried away when eulogising about the loss of the Democrats favourite House Negro. And he said this.


                                            I don't normally call out posters by name, but as a specific poster is teaching US civil right, I cannot with good conscience keep quiet.
                                            John Lewis, the establishments favourites Negro, A man Satchmo Distel respects.
                                            John Lewis the man who voted for the 1994 Crime Bill (AKA Bidens Law), A man Satchmo Distel respects
                                            John Lewis a man lauded by the left wing of white Supremacy for leading black people astray and perpetuating benign neglect for the best part of 6 decades, a man Satchmo Distel respects
                                            John Lewis who was beaten by a racist policeman on the Edmund Petters bridge and spent his entire political career doing nothing to prevent police brutality against Black people, a man Satchmo Distel respects.

                                            In 100 years, people will be still talking about Stokely Carmichael, Malcolm X, MLK, Muhammed Ali and the true giants of the Civil Rights era. The only people who will be talking about John Lewis will be the likes of Satchmo Distel in classrooms trying to spin a false narrative. Even the Democrats can't tell the difference between him and Elijah Cummings.
                                            John Lewis is like those house Negros you see on those Youtube videos in those panel discussions ganging up with racist white people to debate Malcolm X, you will have to google, to find out who they were and what they achieve (or didn't) in their pathetic lifetime.

                                            I am actually disappointed nobody started a thread called "We dead massa" for Lewis.

                                            Stokely Carmichael is noted for his Black Power speech, John Lewis was noted for getting beaten up by a policeman.
                                            Last edited by Tactical Genius; 05-08-2020, 23:23.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
                                              In 100 years, people will be still talking about Stokely Carmichael, Malcolm X, MLK, Muhammed Ali and the true giants of the Civil Rights era
                                              I'm not getting involved with the John Lewis debate, because I don't know enough, but the name of Ali here surprises me. Great man in many ways, but deeply flawed too. Misogyny, for example.

                                              This is an interesting article which seeks to debunk his myth. I don't agree particularly with the boxing sections but the rest does give pause for thought. Maybe the author of the piece has an agenda, I don't know:

                                              https://worldnewstrust.com/was-muham...e-way-mickey-z

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Sporting View Post

                                                I'm not getting involved with the John Lewis debate, because I don't know enough, but the name of Ali here surprises me. Great man in many ways, but deeply flawed too. Misogyny, for example.

                                                This is an interesting article which seeks to debunk his myth. I don't agree particularly with the boxing sections but the rest does give pause for thought. Maybe the author of the piece has an agenda, I don't know:

                                                https://worldnewstrust.com/was-muham...e-way-mickey-z
                                                Before I read the article, I would like to know what you think and why Ali should not be considered a Civil rights Icon.
                                                I know in the 60's and 70's most white people hated Ali with a passion and only grudgingly acknowledged his boxing ability. Ali only became liked when he became a broken shell of a man. Ali after all was the face of the Nation of Islam after expulsion and Death of Malcolm X.

                                                Comment


                                                  I think that Ali was a misogynist and that civil rights include human rights and specifically in this case women's rights. I'm also very skeptical about the whole Nation of Islam movement, as I am about any religious movement.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                                                    Come on Chris, it was much more than meandering Tosh and you know it.

                                                    Actually, Clinton was being incredibly Lucid and honest for a change, maybe it was being around like minded democratic Liberals and he got a little carried away when eulogising about the loss of the Democrats favourite House Negro. And he said this.
                                                    Yeah, that was the part I thought you meant. I suspect any "honesty" you see is in your greater knowledge and understanding of what the omissions and references actually signify. But then I'll admit I loathe the Clintons so much, I'm reluctant to give him credit for even being honest by accident.

                                                    Interesting seeing him deliver that snippet; as I said, I read the transcript, not having time to watch the full video and I had wondered why the text I saw had taken him 17 minutes to orate. Now I know why and I don't think I've changed my view.

                                                    If you look at the substance of his remarks, it's basically a wander through "poor origins... faith... folksy stuff...I was there too.... oddly irrelevant anecdote... folksy stuff... nicer than that Stokely (who I'll call by his first name because..y'know it sounds like we were still allies that way so I have my cake and eat it)... remarkable person......folksy spiritual stuff... another irrelevant anecdote (black hair!)... vague exhortations to do good things... spiritual... "rousing" preacher-style sign off."

                                                    It felt like a parody of a Clinton-as-an-old-man speech; disingenuous, self-flattering, avoiding taking any personal responsibility but claiming a bit of implied credit. But without the wit and fire that used to make him at least entertaining.

                                                    Comment

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