The White Supremacy thread

[Tactical Genius]

Thank you for that post.

i have been re-reading our exchange in a genuine bid to understand the disconnect between what i wanted to say and what you took from my words. i take responsibility for this disconnect and can now see more clearly some of what i could and should (not) have said. i do not take pride in knowing that i have offended you.

It's ok, I am pretty thick skinned.

We are not going to agree on the politics but i appreciate your expanding on your point of view regarding women's and LGBTQ groups and the BLM movement.

We do not have to agree, I feel we can learn more from people we disagree with as our opinions are shaped by the society we live in and our personal upbringing.

i share your opinion that mainstream feminism, in particular, does not do enough to create a safe, supportive environment for Black women to speak out in.

And this is the sad thing.
I can see the gains white women have made in the last 60 odd years as a result of the feminist movement. I am sure you will argue not enough. For black women, I do not see the same and this requires scrutiny and explanation.

i have worked with survivors of domestic abuse and that scenario is very familiar to me.

I would like to hear more about this, these stories need to be told, especially on OTF.

i appreciate your final paragraph, and if i return to this thread i will endeavour to make my next post more supportive of the work you are doing here.

Please stick around and if I ever say anything you disagree with, feel free to hold me to account. Proverbs 27:17 applies here.

Something i forgot to add on previous posts, the Brixton and Broadwater farm riots of 1985 were sparked by the deaths of Black Women.

[Tactical Genius]

Anyway, back to business.

Open Carrying of guns by white people in Georgia is practising second amendment rights. When its black people it's mob rule.
https://www.cbssports.com/wnba/news/...BLKHXxs7tGazU0

[ursus arctos]

53 years since the Panthers at the State Capitol in Sacramento.

Same bullshit.

[laverte]

Proverbs 27:17 applies here.

Perhaps inspired by arguing with a contentious woman on a rainy day.

i'm up for an Old Testament thread.

[ChrisJ]

TG, thanks as ever for your response. Sorry, this is going to be less detailed for various reasons, but I wanted to respond, so as briefly as I can...

White supremacist violence against black women - agreed. Would he have raped black men?

Compliment - probably. Smiley thing.

Steiner - well the article you linked to pointed out her CIA involvement was a myth. As to the wider issue of feminism undermining eg BPP, there was a strong female membership and at the time it began to decline there was a kickback by many black feminists against misogyny within the party - something they pointed out at the time was only possible because of the nature of the party. But correlation =/= causation (unless you argue black men left the party because they didn't like working with powerful women? I doubt it!) and that narrative isn't supported by pieces like this -
https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals...view/4241/3849
and this
https://isreview.org/issue/111/women...-panther-party

Infiltration by other actors? Of course, but that's not the charge you originally made.

No, I said the attempt to divide black people into different groups and create a league table of who is most oppressed is divisive. It is not done to draw attention to, it is done to divide, sow discord and fragment. You know this. Its the same divide and conquer game white society have been running on black society for the last 500 years.

But it's not white people who are doing it... And you know it's not about creating league tables of oppression. It's about recognising the distinct challenges faced by distinct groups within the larger set unified by the blackness they share.

Have you noticed, how many black people go out of their way to identify as something other than black in a way you don't see in white society? This should tell you things are a little different.
White people are very quick to tell you how white they are going generations (there is a geneology thread on OTF after all).

Whereas with black people, there is always a determination to identify as something else, whether it is a tenuous link to another race, gender affiliation or sexual practice or religion.

See below for a good example (forward to 7:45)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr5BQS79H7g

I am very wary about using statistics (they can be bent to mean anything you want them to mean) But if you compare, employment rates, academic achievements, school dropouts, average salary between black men and women you will see they are at different ratios as they are in white society..

This doesn't really make sense. And the reference to the genealogy thread is pure smokescreen. C'mon! I know shedloads of white people who are quite disappointed to find nothing more exciting than the usual Northern European ancestry. But so what?

Poor attempt to trap me there. What I will say is the dominant society has bigger issues with homophobia, transphobia or misogyny.
All these restricted laws and policies are written and enforced by white people.
I just took a trip over to the trans thread and looked at the last three pages.
Most if not all All these anti-LGBT politicians and journalists Delicatemouth regularly complains about are overwhelmingly white. So i would advise you to fix your own house before coming to project onto black society.

Also LGBT people can be racist and violent towards black people too.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-word-her.html

No attempt to trap you. It might help this discussion if you recognise I'm not seeing this as a contest - actually I'm seeing it as a huge educational experience. But if things don't make sense, it would be wrong, probably even racist, to accept them simply because a black person says them. This is not in the context of your lived experience, which is yours and undeniable, but in reasoning and historical accuracy.

I wasn't talking about laws. I was responding to your assertion that black power relationships are different. I'm sure they are, but (in this context) how so? You can't say that then flip back and talk about the dominant society situation. It's circular.

I have posted numerous videos on this thread of black women being physically attacked and battered by non-black people and the feminists have been conspicuous by their silence. I am of the opinion if they showed black men doing the battering, many would have had something to say and no doubt given as prime examples of the misogynistic violence in the black community and black male toxic masculinity.

I agree with all of this. It is kind of my point.

When you only seem to acknowledge the struggle of black women when it gives the opportunity to shit on black society then you leave yourself open to such allegations. You think its indifference, I see it as sabotage, we can agree to disagree on this point.

I'm going to be generous and read the "you" in here as being directed at someone else. Otherwise this discussion isn't being conducted in good faith and is pointless. (If it is at me, you can fuck off with that one or provide evidence that I "only" acknowledge the struggle of black women in order to "shit on black society.")

LGBTQ stuff - well I think Laverte has handled that better than me, but I'd say instances of violence against black trans-people support what I'm saying. I won't click on Daily Mail links so won't comment, and if Chadwick Moore is a racist twat, well, there are a lot them about.. It doesn't make him representative, it doesn't delegitimise the experience of black LGBTQ people.

AAPF - The African American Policy Forum.

Tamela Gordon

Kimberl? Crenshaw

[Tactical Genius]

Ursus, i have noticed Georgia have slipped in some Blue lives matter laws, are they as ominous as they appear?

https://allongeorgia.com/georgia-sta...ill-of-rights/

[ursus arctos]

Bad but completely unsurprising

Not as deadly as Stand Your Ground (where Georgia is among the absolute worst) or a number of others.

The Georgia State Government is a remarkably effective tool of oppression.

[Bruno]

So how do you reconcile all these crazy Karens going around harassing black people. Anyway, I have seen this line of argument on the election thread which I have already addressed.

I find your question to be a non sequitur. I said white supremacy and male supremacy would be hard to disentangle because they heavily overlap. I didn't say white women weren't involved in it.

White supremacy was started by men. I reckon the sharp end of any system of widespread oppression is going to be male. It is therefore worth factoring that into discussions in my opinion.

I hate the adoption of the term "Karen" which is unfair to many decent people, white and non-white, who are named Karen.

[Tactical Genius]

Chris J,

I believe I have answered all your questions in my responses to you and Laverte.

[Tactical Genius]

I find your question to be a non sequitur. I said white supremacy and male supremacy would be hard to disentangle because they heavily overlap. I didn't say white women weren't involved in it.

White supremacy was started by men. I reckon the sharp end of any system of widespread oppression is going to be male. It is therefore worth factoring that into discussions in my opinion

I will accept everything you say if you answer me this.

However you define it, what are you doing to help dismantle the system of white Supremacy and replace it with a system of justice?

Have you written to your local council member,your local mayor, your state legislature representative, your local and state DA as well as your representative in the federal house of representatives and Senator.

I assume you have written them all a strongly worded letter protesting at the white Supremacist violence and what they are personally going to do about it?

If so, please post it up here (feel free to redact any personal identifiable information), if you haven't I would be interested to know why not.

I hate the adoption of the term "Karen" which is unfair to many decent people, white and non-white, who are named Karen.

My sentiments are more with the people on the receiving end of these Karens

[Bruno]

I find those questions to be more non sequitur.

I sympathize more with the victims of your "Karens" too. It's not an either/or decision.

[Tactical Genius]

Bad but completely unsurprising

Not as deadly as Stand Your Ground (where Georgia is among the absolute worst) or a number of others.

The Georgia State Government is a remarkably effective tool of oppression.

Ha,

I see the local DA has brought charges on the police officers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUnqZMzVFsA

And the DA (who is up for re-election) has received racist abuse and death threats.

[Tactical Genius]

I find those questions to be more non sequitur.

Please answer.

I sympathize more with the victims of your "Karens" too. It's not an either/or decision.

Very good.

[Bruno]

TG, I don't owe you any disclosures about my private behaviors. I might consider answering if you could logically explain the relevance, how it's demanded by anything I've suggested, but as it is I think you're just being obnoxious.

[Tactical Genius]

TG, I don't owe you any disclosures about my private behaviors. I might consider answering if you could logically explain the relevance, how it's demanded by anything I've suggested, but as it is I think you're just being obnoxious.

It's ok, you are correct, you don't owe me an answer. Let's just leave it there and move on then.

[Tactical Genius]

Perhaps inspired by arguing with a contentious woman on a rainy day.

i'm up for an Old Testament thread.

Funny you should say that

[Tactical Genius]

Some people wonder why black people are more likely to die of Covid 19.

This is less surprising when you are treated by a nurse like this lady.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3xlVyELjgI

Her husband is a police officer.

And just to show, this is not an isolated incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-jEbr3c0mo&t

[Tactical Genius]

I think this is a good article. Written by a white man in a mixed relationship with a black son.

[ChrisJ]

Chris J,

I believe I have answered all your questions in my responses to you and Laverte.

OK, I don't think you have, but it's perhaps time to move on. I'd suggest you'd find those links I posted interesting, though.

[Tactical Genius]

OK, I don't think you have, but it's perhaps time to move on. I'd suggest you'd find those links I posted interesting, though.

Hopefully, you will approve of this post?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvqlgsCy7NI

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/nilesgapol/status/1276950055350657024?s=21

[Bruno]

And Princeton's Wilson School is no longer called that.

[ChrisJ]

Hopefully, you will approve of this post?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvqlgsCy7NI

Approve of the cops being sacked? Approve of you posting about racist violence against black women? To be clear I've not, at any point, suggested you're a misogynist or indifferent to violence black women. Is that really how my posts read? If so, I'd better stay out of this.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/BarnabyPhillips/status/1277156012311674883?s=20

[Nefertiti2]

an interview with Diane Abbott

https://twitter.com/OliviaAlabaster/status/1277269208305487873?s=20

I recommend anyone wanting to know how racist this country is should mention Diane Abbott on the message board of their football team.

in fact it would be a very good bit of research. If everyone posted this link with a relatively neutral comment like
"interesting interview with Dianne Abbott" and we collated the responses we could publish it in WSC, or somewhere.