The White Supremacy thread

[Tactical Genius]

I like that Kehinde Andrews guy

He is regularly wheeled out on GMB probably to infuriate and wind up white people before they get out of bed. That was 8:35 AM FFS.
Who needs a double Espresso first thing in the morning when you can have 5 minutes of Kehinde rounding up your historical sacred cows and turning them into Hamburgers.
The look on the face of the bald headed white guy as he was being killed with facts, it was like he had just found out Father Christmas didn't exist.

I think this is a classic Kehinde when debating the legacy of Churchill and his alleged racism. His retorts are legendary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoP4KuKOIuM&t=

WOM, do not open this as he has my debatinbg style
When asked if Churchill's racist veiws were of his time - That's the Jimmy Saville defence, "they were all a bit different back then"

Nelson Mandela - He's a sellout.

Do you have any hero's - Of course Malcolm X

A WOM friendly link here saying exactly the same thing about Churchill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy8Bt_V971o

[Tactical Genius]

Did you know that Britain actually did pay reparations after ending the slave trade? Sort of. In fact they only stopped paying them in 2015

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/202...lavery-history

I don;t really have words

Yes, there was a really good documentary series on this a few years back and was mentioned on OTF a fair bit when it emerged many British families (included the Prime Minister of the time Cameron were slave owning).

It was the largest bailout in British history until the housing crisis in 2008, they essentially bought the slaves off the owners at above market price.
see below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTtGVCwiCvw&t=
and part two
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgaJyp8ix4M&t=

As I am sure you probably guessed, people were finessing big time.

[Sporting]

He is regularly wheeled out on GMB probably to infuriate and wind up white people before they get out of bed. That was 8:35 AM FFS.
Who needs a double Espresso first thing in the morning when you can have 5 minutes of Kehinde rounding up your historical sacred cows and turning them into Hamburgers.
The look on the face of the bald headed white guy as he was being killed with facts, it was like he had just found out Father Christmas didn't exist.

I think this is a classic Kehinde when debating the legacy of Churchill and his alleged racism. His retorts are legendary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoP4KuKOIuM&t=

WOM, do not open this as he has my debatinbg style
When asked if Churchill's racist veiws were of his time - That's the Jimmy Saville defence, "they were all a bit different back then"

Nelson Mandela - He's a sellout.

Do you have any hero's - Of course Malcolm X

A WOM friendly link here saying exactly the same thing about Churchill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy8Bt_V971o

I'm with the views on Churchill as a racist, but I find the criticism of Mandela a bit over the top. He was no saint, that's for sure, but 27 years in prison for one's beliefs says something,

[Tactical Genius]

I'm with the views on Churchill as a racist, but I find the criticism of Mandela a bit over the top. He was no saint, that's for sure, but 27 years in prison for one's beliefs says something,

He came out of jail and sold out. You cant keep giving people kudos for what they did 50 years ago. He came out, became president and not much has changed for the average black South African.
Land ownership in South Africa has gone from around 85% White owned in 1990 to 72% in 2017. Some people consider that progress, I call that selling out.

[Patrick Thistle]

Tbf to Mandela, it's been hard for him to do much since 2013.

He was only president until 1999, so that's 20 years for subsequent black presidents to try and sort stuff out. But they've had other stuff on.

[Tactical Genius]

I have a question for you Sporting (if you are minded to answer, i will understand if you are not). What do you think of his other points regarding the British Empire and Nazi Germany and well as the concept of Whiteness being a form of psychosis (Something I have mentioned before, albeit using different terms)?

[Tactical Genius]

Tbf to Mandela, it's been hard for him to enact any changes since 2013.

That's a cop out of an answer if I ever saw one. But you knew that as you were typing it. But if your were being serious, my response would be that great people leave a legacy, a baton that many would be eager to pick up and try to run with. Mandela stopped being relevant long before he died. It could be argued Mugabe was more popular on the continent at the time of his death than Mandela.

[Patrick Thistle]

It was a joke to point out that calling Mandela a sellout isn't exactly a contemporary take on South Africa. I forgot you don't do jokes.

[Etienne]

Andrews was excellent in that debate, as much for staying calm and good humoured than for his points (which I entirely agree with but which are difficult to put across with Morgan bellowing idiocies at you).

[Tactical Genius]

It was a joke to point out that calling Mandela a sellout isn't exactly a contemporary take on South Africa. I forgot you don't do jokes.

Sum tings are not a joke ting blud.

[Tactical Genius]

Andrews was excellent in that debate, as much for staying calm and good humoured than for his points (which I entirely agree with but which are difficult to put across with Morgan bellowing idiocies at you).

I think the smirking is that he knew he was debating a bunch of dunces who knew little of what they were on about. You know when someone if misrepresenting your position and trying to force you to defend it. You have them on toast. His simple response was, "I didn't say that".
The bald headed guy realised pretty quickly he was outmatched and tapped out leaving Morgan to flail around like an ignorant dunce.

They regularly have Andrews on as comic relief to annoy white people and he wins every fucking time meaning Morgan has to shout him down and tell lies by attempting to paint him as the angry black man.

[Sporting]

I have a question for you Sporting (if you are minded to answer, i will understand if you are not). What do you think of his other points regarding the British Empire and Nazi Germany and well as the concept of Whiteness being a form of psychosis (Something I have mentioned before, albeit using different terms)?

The British Empire was obviously worse than bad. That doesn't mean in itself that the world shouldn't have resisted Nazi Germany. But a lot more self-reflection should have followed the eventual military victory and I don't think that this happened. In many ways, indeed, the British Empire has continued, less in countries "owned" than in other, largely economic ways.

As for whiteness being a form of psychosis, I would need to think more on that one, read more and hear more opinions.

[Tactical Genius]

The British Empire was obviously worse than bad. That doesn't mean in itself that the world shouldn't have resisted Nazi Germany.

I don't think that was the argument he was making.
His point was actions of Nazi Germany were not new as they were all used previously in the British Empire and their ideology regarding race were pretty commonplace in western Europe (and North America).

In many ways, indeed, the British Empire has continued, less in countries "owned" than in other, largely economic ways.

An excellent point.

[Sporting]

.Mandela stopped being relevant long before he died. It could be argued Mugabe was more popular on the continent at the time of his death than Mandela.

I'd be interested to hear Kehinde's - and your - views on the legacy of Mugabe.

[Tactical Genius]

I'd be interested to hear Kehinde's - and your - views on the legacy of Mugabe.

I cannot answer for him as he did not make that Mugabe comment.

To answer completely would take the time I currently don't have. Mugabe (regardless of what you think of his policies) spoke truth to power til the day he died. Mandela left prison a broken man and talked peace and reconciliation against an enemy that was unrepentant, showed little remorse and although they gave up the office, didn't give up power (besides a few token appointments).

Note: the sanctions against Zimbabwe which we were all promised would be lifted when Mugabe left office are still in place (as he said would happen).

[Patrick Thistle]

How can someone who is the power speak truth to power in his own country? In what way did Mugabe speak truth to other world leaders? He was pretty much ignored.

I've had business dealing with a Zimbabwean. Her take on the regime is bleak.

[Tactical Genius]

How can someone who is the power speak truth to power in his own country? In what way did Mugabe speak truth to other world leaders? He was pretty much ignored.

I've had business dealing with a Zimbabwean. Her take on the regime is bleak.

Nobody in charge of a country in Africa has real power. Africa is still being ruled by their old colonial powers and anyone who steps out of line becomes demonised and gets taken out.
The bleakness in Zimbabwe is mainly down to.
1. The Western Sanctions
2. Western encouragement to locals to rise up and then leaving them high and dry when they did.

I am sure the inhabitants of Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria have heard this story.

[G-Man]

TG's view on Mandela are the immature drivel of a noisy militant garden gnome in short trousers. In some places in South Africa, a statement like that might earn him a cracked skull.

Of course, there's a fruitful debate to be had about how the Rainbow Nation project became an obstacle tro transformation (though there you want to inspect the neo-liberal policy and associated corruption under Mandela's successors), even within the context in which national reconciliation was a necessary tool to neuter white political control.

But if the opening gambit is "Mandela was a sell-out", then there is no more fruitful discussion to be had than there would be with a there is with a toddler about the merits of jellybeans as a breakfast food.

[Nefertiti2]

the fact that a statement might provoke a violent response is not a convincing argument for its inaccuracy

[Tactical Genius]

the fact that a statement might provoke a violent response is not a convincing argument for its inaccuracy

Thank you Nef.

Unfortunately we still have a bullying culture on OTF where people still think tossing around childish insults is a legitimate debating tactic.
G-man, you have been on OTF as long as me and should know better, especially with the number of people on this message board suffering from mental issues.
This wasn't really cool when we were young, and thank god the people who used to do this have buggered off the board.

When you are ready to put forward a coherent argument, i will respond until then, I bid you good day.

[G-Man]

I made no slur about people with mental health issues. I made a slur against mindless sloganeerers. And I indicated that I have no interest to debate this with you, so this was not a debating "tactic".

[Tactical Genius]

I made no slur about people with mental health issues. I made a slur against mindless sloganeerers. And I indicated that I have no interest to debate this with you, so this was not a debating "tactic".

So you just replied to just hurl personal insults and dissapear. The sad thing is people on this messageboard are impressed by this behaviour and think it's cool.

[Nefertiti2]

The White Supremacy thread featuring a white poster calling the contribution of a black poster "the immature drivel of a noisy militant garden gnome in short trousers"

.

[Tactical Genius]

The White Supremacy thread featuring a white poster calling the contribution of a black poster "the immature drivel of a noisy militant garden gnome in short trousers"

.

I am going to play the bigger man here.

G-man, I fully understand if you disagree with my assesssment of Mandela, I actually would be surprised if you actually agreed with me.
I think it would have been better for you to state you do not agree with me, you could even have said it forcefully without hurling personal insults. If you are as smart as you like to think you are and i am as stupid as you claim, this would have been easy work. I think a debate would have been quite educational as we would have discussed his latter achievement from both angles
By reacting the way you did, you have done yourself no favours.

I hope you accept my words in the spirit it is meant.

[G-Man]

No, there's no premise for a debate, and you gave no "assessment". Calling Mandela "sell-out" is on par with empty Brexit sloganeering (and note that you provided no context to your slogan). I hear too much of this crap from immature would-be militants here. It needs to be called out with the contempt it deserves.

Had you stated the reasons why you thought Mandela's legacy is tarnished, there would have been a premise for a debate. It might even have been fruitful, and I would have been able to provide insights of an eyewitness to the times, having worked for the ANC and then as a journalist in the early 1990s.

But something else strikes me about what you say: "If you are as smart as you like to think you are and i am as stupid as you claim, this would have been easy work". That's why I don't like debating with you. For you it's about "winning", rather than exchanging ideas. And not too long ago, you threw the grenade of calling me a racist. And you keep arguing in bad faith, frequently claiming you didn't say what is there to see, black on white.

So, even if I saw good reason to ask you why you say Mandela is a sell-out and then engage you in discussion, I know it will not be an edifying experience. Life's too short.