Originally posted by Tactical Genius
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Originally posted by WOM View Post
No, no red mist at all, I assure you. I'm just struggling to understand what you think is happening. You raise suspicions, but don't outline exactly what's suspicious about them.
The sequence of events post the murder are unusual at best.
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Originally posted by ursus arctos View PostTG, I'm both US based and a lawyer, so:
1) Pro bono representation is indeed much more common in civil cases than it is criminal cases, but it isn't unheard of in the latter, up to an including murder. It so happens that I worked on a pro bono murder case very early in my career, where the primary issue was whether a variety of medical, chemical and psychological issues that plagued the defendant rendered incapable of forming the level of intent needed to be prosecuted under what was then California's capital murder statute. My firm, like many "major" New York law firms, has also worked on a number of death penalty appeals.
That said, these circumstances are not at all those where one would most expect pro bono criminal representation. However, given the number of murder prosecutions in the US every year, I'm pretty sure that it has happened before. Do we know for sure that Darden isn't being paid by someone?
If you win a criminal case, is the prosecution liable for the defence's costs?
The logical assumption is that Darden is taking on the case Pro Bono, although this has not been officially confirmed or denied (fuelling conspiracy theories). It is quite baffling why Darden would take the case. Apparently his family are being harassed on Social media which is something that I am sure he expected (And I do not condone btw).
I just don't get why he would subject himself to all the hassle. He has made a decent living on the lecture circuit, writing books and occasionally popping up as a talking head on the news channels.
2) It isn't uncommon for bail to be reduced in US criminal cases. Bail is often set by a judge before the defendant has informed representation (or indeed, any representation) and will be reduced after an informed lawyer can make a convincing argument that it should be lower. By US standards, USD 5 million is still very high for a defendant in these circumstances.
Chances of re-offending whilst on bail (danger to the public)
Probability of absconding
Interference of material witnesses
The defendant would probably struggle to get bail in the UK based on 1 and 3 due to his previous convictions and Gang affiliations.
3) As I imagine you know, the LAPD has an extensive history of criminal activity that goes back at least to the 40s, and Black people are been the prime targets of that criminal activity much more often than mere chance would suggest. The circumstances of the investigation that you note strike me as being very worthy of skeptical review.
4) Virtually every notable criminal defence attorney in the US began his or her career as a prosecutor. It is an incredibly common career path, particularly for the talented and/or ambitious.
Hope this helps. As always, I'm happy to respond to other questions you (or anyone else) may have.
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Originally posted by Tactical Genius View PostIf you win a criminal case, is the prosecution liable for the defence's costs?
I don't know if Darden is being paid, either, though it is possible that he is. It is also possible that he took on the representation for other reasons that I can't even speculate about. I would be interested if he addresses that question publicly. In that vein, Darden doesn't work by himself the way a UK barrister would. He has a staff of junior lawyers, legal assistants, private investigators, administrative staff, etc. They will all still have to be paid even if he is working pro bono. That said, while a murder case is very time-intensive, it isn't so time-intensive as to prevent lawyers from working on other matters (at least before it goes to trial.
Is a bail figure always set in murder cases?
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Originally posted by Tactical Genius View PostAlso the personal relationships you have with Police officers, Coroners offices and police testing labs would no doubt come in handy
*edit I think they have to (by law) turn over any evidence found, but I am sure they have ways of making this difficult for the defence.
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Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
No. If the US system operated that way, "criminal justice" in this country would be massively different.
I don't know if Darden is being paid, either, though it is possible that he is. It is also possible that he took on the representation for other reasons that I can't even speculate about. I would be interested if he addresses that question publicly. In that vein, Darden doesn't work by himself the way a UK barrister would. He has a staff of junior lawyers, legal assistants, private investigators, administrative staff, etc. They will all still have to be paid even if he is working pro bono. That said, while a murder case is very time-intensive, it isn't so time-intensive as to prevent lawyers from working on other matters (at least before it goes to trial.
I made the point about the backup staff upthread. You can add to that list expert Witnesses who will attest to his mental state (if there is an insanity plea) or video experts if they plan to make a case for mistaken identity.
No, sometimes the defendant is considered so dangerous and/or such a flight risk that s/he is denied bail (this happens even in non-murder cases). However, recent legislation has made it meaningfully more difficult to refuse bail in California (and in Federal cases) than it used to be. The factors courts consider are generally the same as though in the UK; it is the conclusions that differ.
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Tactical Genius wrote :
Nipsey Hustle is not a low level rapper.
He is probably the best known underground rapper of the last decade.
His debut album released in 2018 was nominated for a Grammy (best Rap Album) losing out to Cardi B
Does that sound like the CV of a low level rapper, can you name a low level musicion in any Genre that has a Grammy noimination for best Albun?
It's perfectly common for a relatively obscure artist to actually win a genre "Best Album" Grammy, even moreso for one to receive a nomination given that there are usually five artists nominated.
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Originally posted by Ray de Galles View PostTactical Genius wrote :
This is an aside really but I'll make it. There are currently 84 Grammy categories (down from the 109 that was reached in recent years) and over 30 of them are for "Best Album" in various genres.
It's perfectly common for a relatively obscure artist to actually win a genre "Best Album" Grammy, even moreso for one to receive a nomination given that there are usually five artists nominated.
However, best Rap Album is not an obscure category and it is an achievement to be nominated taking inbto account high profile and competitive as Rap is arguably the most popular music Genre's on earth (depending on how you measure such things).
Now, I don't hold much truck with the Grammy's, but his Debut album has got good reviews and has been highly rated by practically everyone.
I get the lay person not knowing about Nipsey Hustle, but he was well known amongst rap aficionados.
This is the guy who before he was signed was selling his mixtapes for $100 a pop and sold 1000 copies in the first evening (JayZ bought 100). He wasn't just an artist, he was a financial and marketing Genius on the level of Master P, Uncle Luke and the Houston Rappers of the early naughties like Slim Thug.
He didn't go to the record companies to audition, they came to him.
This is the song that made him famous and got alot of airtime during the 2016 presidential campaign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkZ5e94QnWk
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Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
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[URL]https://twitter.com/mannyfidel/status/1118941635679805440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1118976230022352916&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fheavy.com%2Fnews%2F2019%2F04%2Facist-ancestry-dna-ad%2F[/URL]
I wasn't sure whether to put this in this thread or the WTF thread.
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Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
This is what happened in the UK, it was the largest government bailout in UK history before the banking crisis of 2008. Something nobody was taught in Schools.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/project/details/
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Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
Many thanks for this, which I never knew about previously. Apparently the UK state handed out $20,000,000 to slaveowners across the Caribbean. There's some excellent research being done to track down the details.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/project/details/
There was a good documentary on the bbc about this around 4 or 5 years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTtGVCwiCvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgaJyp8ix4M
Basically, the British government bought the slaves off the slave owners. There is a record of every slave owner (as people had to register to get compensation) it is the equivalent of £20 Billion today(half of it to people in the UK). I remember the report being controversial at the time as many famous people had slave owning ancestors (including David Cameron unsurprisingly) also embarrassing at the time were the number of Clergy owned slaves.
It is actually interesting how slave wealth permeated the British economy and how many British people became rich and their generational wealth started up. And when the gig was up, they got a massive cash payout which many then invested in enterprises that their descendants are still living off today.Last edited by Tactical Genius; 19-04-2019, 08:09.
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Not seen any coverage on OTF about this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48113953
What are the posters thoughts on this?
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Race and gender affect all murder verdicts involving police in such a racialized society. I can imagine Noor's defence working on the jury had he been a white male and his victim not a white female. But I wouldn't base such a conclusion on one case in isolation.
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Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
also embarrassing at the time were the number of Clergy owned slaves.
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Funny you should mention Georgia. A little known fact is many runaway slaves escaping from the plantations in the Carolinas would traverse Georgia to head south into Florida and hook up with the Seminole Indians. This was the original underground railroad before Georgia became a state and enacted some really tough slavery laws (slavery was illegal in the state between 1735 and 1751).
Harriet Tubman was much later many many more runaway slaves ended up in Florida and became known as the Seminoles (or black Seminoles depending on your historical sources).
This is why the US had two pretty brutal wars with that tribe as they attempted to force them to give up the runaway slaves and they resisted as black people made up a massive proportion of the population as well as a significant portion of the warrior class.
This is why many paintings and early photographs of Native American Seminoles depict them as quite dark skinned. Africans had been in Florida and the Caribbean for centuries before Columbus, but that's a different conversation.
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hmm, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. it's definitely possible, just extremely difficult.
The distance between west Africa and south america is only 1600 miles, but that is still quite a distance from the carribean. That's a rather tricky journey to make given pre-colombian sailing technology. The earliest european trips to north america essentially island-hopped via iceland and greenland, and took a fucking long time.
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