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    The fox wasn't defenceless. He already said that it had a baseball bat.

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      Boom, boom!

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        https://twitter.com/thesundaysport/status/1210177203578818562

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          It isn't centrist. It's civility.

          https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ty-keep-losing

          Aha. Aha. Aha haaaa.

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            The Trevor Bastard Extended Universe, not unsurprisingly, has nailed this phenomenon succinctly:

            https://twitter.com/TreborRhurbarb/status/1225797987416334337

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              Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
              The Trevor Bastard Extended Universe, not unsurprisingly, has nailed this phenomenon succinctly:
              I think I need to take classes on who's who on Twitter!

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                Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
                The Trevor Bastard Extended Universe, not unsurprisingly, has nailed this phenomenon succinctly:

                https://twitter.com/TreborRhurbarb/status/1225797987416334337
                This is an extremely shrewd comment. You can see a similar phenomenon in the coverage of top level football as well. There's a lot of 90's nostalgia, and it's kind of horrifying how reactionary and conservative a lot of these recently retired footballers are.

                The signs were always there with roy keane and we always knew he was unusually competitive, but he is without doubt the foremost exponent of turbo gammonism in the uk, and it makes me sad.

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                  The weird thing about nostalgia for 90s football is that its core arguments – the game was rougher, tougher, more 'honest' and 'fun' back then - were precisely NOT what people felt about it at the time. It was a period of tumultous change and enforced modernisation. It was tatty round the edges but a core complaint BACK THEN was that the game was being over-sanitised.

                  So many people really have forgotten what the 90s was actually like.

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                    Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                    I think I need to take classes on who's who on Twitter!
                    The TBEU is a rabbit hole that you'll never come out of.

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                      Or really want to.

                      I met the man himself at a party in Belfast a couple of months ago (he and his wife are mates of my sisters) and I felt surprisingly starstruck

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                        Here's a primer, Sporting https://theoutline.com/post/8466/tre...tributor_pages

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                          Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                          Thanks

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                            Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
                            The weird thing about nostalgia for 90s football is that its core arguments – the game was rougher, tougher, more 'honest' and 'fun' back then - were precisely NOT what people felt about it at the time. It was a period of tumultous change and enforced modernisation. It was tatty round the edges but a core complaint BACK THEN was that the game was being over-sanitised.

                            So many people really have forgotten what the 90s was actually like.
                            well it's not really about the football at all really is it? You're getting this with music as well, and anything else that is important to people. Listening to Chart Music and hearing about the various ted revivals, and how parents and grandparents viewed top of the pops, would lead one to suspect that this is just the way things have always been, and particularly so in the UK. it's about people struggling to come to terms with getting older, and dealing with it in the culturally normal way of wallowing in ahistorical mindless nostalgia, and using simplistic misunderstandings about what happened back then to compound the mistakes they are making in dealing with the present. The tricky bit is that this is an incredibly difficult trap to avoid. You have to a) have a really good memory b) have been paying attention at the time c) been paying attention at all points in between. And even if you are good at avoiding falling into this trap in terms of politics, and remain open minded and progressive about these things, everyone is going to have their own subjects on which they just have a more emotional, and consequently reactionary response. This is a comforting way to think.

                            This particular example is much more noticeable to me because I'm about the same age as these people, and was a teenager at the same time. One of the main differences I think between me and say Daniel Harris, is that I don't necessarily see the 1992-95 man utd team as being more manly, unless you take manly to mean "Dealing badly with obvious mental problems". See even by knowing what people were thinking about 90's football at the time, you're revealing that you're a little bit older. I don't think it was quite as explicit for people who were teenagers for the 80's. because basically too many people died. Heysel, Bradford and Hillsborough squat on top of the memory of 80's football, like a frontal lobe tumour. The football was even more unwatchable in hindsight, (Sixties football seems strangely watchable compared with the three decades that follow it) and media companies are prepared to give a lot more time to "premier league" nostalgia, (Which I think is a big bit of what is driving this)

                            Actually one of the things I most like about chart music is the way that in the most recent episode simon was talking about the reverence with which people would listen to music coming out of a terrible tinny little transistor radio, and then contrast it with people now complaining about kids playing music on their tinny terrible phones. or how what in hindsight seems like a golden age of music in the eighventies, when many of the contributors were in their teens, has to always be set against how unspeakably terrible virtually everything else was around it.
                            Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 14-02-2020, 16:54.

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                              I was struck by how modern the Celtic 67 team seemed, overlapping full backs and all. 70s Ajax remains pretty watchable too though Berba.

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                                Oh sure ajax were pretty slick, but all around them, football is gradually drifting into violent amphetamine fuelled psychosis. and they're a part of it too. It's interesting to Compare the Celtic games from the sixties, with the celtic Atletico Madrid bloodbath from 1975(?)
                                Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 14-02-2020, 17:28.

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                                  Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                                  Oh sure ajax were pretty slick, but all around them, football is gradually drifting into violent amphetamine fuelled psychosis. and they're a part of it too. It's interesting to Compare the Celtic games from the sixties, with the celtic Atletico Madrid bloodbath from 1975(?)

                                  It was in 1974. I think I watched in live. Could that be true? If not, I certainly saw the highlights.

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                                    Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post


                                    It was in 1974. I think I watched in live. Could that be true? If not, I certainly saw the highlights.
                                    I think the highlights. I saw it too.

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                                      I hope it was on after the watershed.

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                                        I think Daniel Harris and you are fairly similar in age, TAB

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                                          I think I'm maybe a year older than him. So when he's romanticising 1994 I'm very keenly are that he's talking about the last group of footballers who were adults when we were still teenagers. Its very different when you're the same age as the players, and then there's that traumatic period in your mid thirties, when you have to recognize that you're probably not going to be discovered, and you can get down to hating the young for lacking the moral virtues of the past.

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                                            Yeah, the mid-30s is a key time in fandom evolution; with me, I found myself self-combusting with rage much less often, being kinder to players and hardly ever shouting at them, and even - to my shame - shouting "go on son" at younger members of my team.

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                                              Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
                                              Yeah, the mid-30s is a key time in fandom evolution; with me, I found myself self-combusting with rage much less often, being kinder to players and hardly ever shouting at them, and even - to my shame - shouting "go on son" at younger members of my team.
                                              yeah, but you seem to have dealt with it well. That makes you both a freak and a weirdo. Where's the Ill-focused confused rage? For me my path into the mid thirties was eased by the presence of Conor Sammon in the Irish football team, a player who both looked and played like me. It was like I was out there and running around, without having to break a sweat.

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                                                I'm very glad - growing up in a wee town on the west coast of Scotland in the 1970s and 80s - I pretty much eschewed football, both as a participatory and spectator sport. I have vague memories of walking home from school one day (aged perhaps 7 or 8?) and same much larger person barking "What team do you support?" and realising I had a fifty / fifty chance of not getting a thump (I guessed Rangers and emerged unscathed). That shithead mentality seems to be prevalent in self-appointed clever wankers and 'opinion formers' and 'columnists' as well, though they use bigger words and don't have the balls to punch eight year olds directly.

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                                                  The Old Firm rite of passage. We've all been there

                                                  On the other hand it can be disarmed...

                                                  "So are youse a Fenian?"

                                                  "Dunno. What's a Fenian?"

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