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    Arms and the man

    A comment by Canadian former prime minister Kim Campbell earlier this week has had lots of women up in, er, arms. Campbell twote:

    I am struck by how many women on television news wear sleeveless dresses- often when sitting with suited men. I have always felt it was demeaning to the women and this [here she references another tweet] suggests that I am right. Bare arms undermine credibility and gravitas!
    These aren't the wisest words ever committed to cyberspace. Surveys show that the public holds newsreaders in (bizarrely?) high esteem, regardless of gender or sleevage. And it goes without saying that women on tv, as in any other profession or walk of life, ought to be able to wear what they like, within certain parameters. But what are those parameters? Whose interests do or should they serve?

    Note that what Cambpell finds demeaning is the contrast between news-presenting women's attire and news-presenting men's. Placed side by side, the sleeveless woman appears more bodily, more exposed than the suited man. (She is very often also the younger, junior, lower-earning partner.) Does this affect our perception of their credibility and gravitas?

    Campbell, on a roll, tried to justify her tweet, citing an academic paper which suggested that we, the public, really do think differently of people according to how much of their skin we can see. The paper's findings are a bit – no, a lot more complex than she made out. Rather than belittling or objectifying people who flash some flesh, we tend to feminise them (a fraction more so, in fact, when they are men); that is, we attribute to them less agency and rationality, but more scope for warmth and feeling (and, by extension, vulnerability). Since the main selling point of news presenters seems to be that they should be likeable and relatable, it's hard to argue that sleevelessness is doing them a disservice here.

    In any case, as Campbell ought to have realised, the Sleeve Wars are one of those no-win scenarios for women in the workplace. If they're not underdressed, they're overdressed; long sleeves make them dull and invisible, but show a bit of arm and bang goes their credibility. Despite this, plenty of women do seem to get it right, whatever it may be in any given work environment, and at whatever cost in terms of the time and money they spend/blow on self-presentation. Which leads me to an uncomfortable question: what if Campbell is right? What if it can be proven that baring arms, legs, shoulders really does hold women back? Is it worth pursuing the right to be eternally cold, eternally anxious that your armpit hair is growing more quickly than you anticipated, in the knowledge that you are sabotaging your own career, just to say fuck you to patriarchy?

    The way out of the dilemma is obvious. What is demeaning about bare skin in the newsroom and the office – for we are not talking about building sites or gyms here – is its association with femininity. Women bare; women are less; therefore baring is less. Now, we could try to persuade the public/men to get over their preconceptions and prejudices about femininity and all that Venus/Mars silliness, but I'm globally speaking pessimistic. Alternatively, we could get men to dress more like women. I don't mean dresses and bras. I mean sleeveless shirts, lower-cut tops, open shoes, cardigans with mid-length sleeves, maybe even painted nails and lip gloss. Go on, fellas, what's stopping you? [Not a rhetorical question.]

    In proposing this I am joining a long, albeit marginal tradition. The struggle against boring, restrictive, gender-specific men's clothing was a part of the 19th century reform movement. In the UK it was driven by silk-stockinged reverends and high-minded bicyclists. It culminated in the establishment of the Men's Dress Reform Party (whose leaders are pictured below) – motto: “Better and Brighter Clothes!” – an eccentric interwar offshoot of the eugenicist movement concerned that the dull and sexless appearance of middle-class men was depressing the birth rate. French reformers were drawn from more bohemian circles: aristocrats (real and phoney) nostalgic for the days of perfume and powder; dandies and libertines eager to renounce the Great Renunciation; agile young men no longer able to hide the light of their gorgeousness under a bushel of flannel and tweed. Then came James Dean and the Sixties and glam rock and Boy George and little football shorts. And now here we are, with wee Alfie dressed as Spiderman and wee Emma (it's always a fucking Emma) as Princess Anna, and men still covered all the way from the neck down reading the news alongside women not.



    What struck me while reading about the dress reform chaps (apart from the eugenics) is how sincerely they admired the feminists who had campaigned for greater sartorial freedoms, and – a rarity – how openly they envied the women that now benefited from them. Yet these were not freedoms that most men have ever seemed to want for themselves – which makes me suspect they might not really be freedoms, or ones worth having, at all.

    Perhaps men are wrong. We are in an age where self-presentation takes on more and more value. Young middle-class women – better educated, health-conscious, immaculately groomed, 'in touch' with their sexuality, and more than likely sleeveless – are the “ideal neoliberal subjects”. Each seems to have her own individual style (the fruit of much thought, experimentation and selfie analysis) yet many are also able to meet the narrow criteria for Getting It Right in any given environment. Who needs gravitas when you are already kickass?

    Perhaps men's workwear genuinely is oppressive, as the dress reformers believed. Oppressive not in a Breitbarty, male tears kind of way, but in a self-limiting, counterproductive way, a bit like unlearning how to show emotions. Perhaps all those shades of brown and blue, the boring shoes and the sweaty collars, the suits and ties and shapeless aggrandising body-devouring smartcasualness that once marked you out as a real company man are holding you back now that the company is all about creativity and passion and innovation (and outsourcing its staff). Unicorns don't shop at Moss Bros.

    Perhaps a presenter ready to forgo some of his own credibility and gravitas by baring the same amount of skin as the woman working alongside him is a presenter who doesn't later drop his trousers, waggle his dick at her, and reprimand her for not wanting to suck it.

    Or perhaps Kim Campbell is confusing a consequence of the double standard with a cause. If it isn't armflesh, won't it be make-up or jewellery or higher-pitched voices? There's always something.

    Anyway, instead of going down that road, let me open this up. What do you folks wear to work? How much time and effort do you spend on presentation? What are the sartorial parameters (written and unwritten) in your workplaces, past or present? Do they feel constrictive? How would you dress if you could? Any really smart or stylish dressers you've worked with? Any eccentrics who try to bend the rules? Does anyone Get It Wrong? Do you think your presentation has affected the way you are perceived at work? Have you ever felt judged? Who (else) gets judged? What would it take for you to find someone else's presentation decredibilising or demeaning?

    And do you really want gravitas from your news presenters?

    #2
    Yay, Laverte! I am now casually dressed in my current position, in a suit I felt very conscious of sweat and sweat stains come high summer (of course if you are nervous you are likely to sweat more, maybe even through your suit). And wearing a suit means shaving almost all the time and ironing. But I don’t think I was any more efficient in a suit. But I’ll clothes up of meeting a client or someone Senior outwith the workplace I guess. The suit is such a terrible dull gray (or increasingly Adam Sandler Blue for some reason) restrictive piece of clothing but.
    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 16-02-2018, 23:10.

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      #3
      Goddam the newsreaders these days. Huw Edwards is almost as culpable as Andrew Fucking Neil now. Couldn’t care what they wore if they weren’t as shite. Outside C4, sometimes.
      Last edited by Lang Spoon; 17-02-2018, 00:09.

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        #4
        Ah, Kim... Kim... You should stick to chess.

        Anyway, good topic. Given that I teach visual communication, I think a fair bit about classroom presentation (though there are no official parameters I'm aware of.) First class of newbies I might wear a cream shirt, with a Nigerian brown and cream fabric waistcoat, off white pants, ecru and orange shoes. The object is to indicate I'm not their friend, but I'm accessible in semi-formal and friendly way. As the semester moves on I edge toward more informality, green or red suede shoes, black jeans, red or green shirt, black leather jacket. That type of thing. Yes it does affect the way I'm perceived by students, and they do judge me (mostly via student evaluations,) though — to this point — never negatively. I can't imagine someone's presentation being demeaning. Bland perhaps, distracting in some circumstances possibly. But that's as far as I'd go.

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          #5
          At our place the neck penises have almost disappeared in the ten years I've been there. The men are definitely dressing more casually. Jumpers have replaced jackets for a good number of men and there's a bigger variety of shoes on display. I wear a suit and tie once a year, when I have a meeting with foreign senior civil servants and government officials. Otherwise it's a shirt (increasingly casual), dark trousers and knitwear for me.

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            #6
            I work from home, so it's usually board shorts, a t-shirt and bare feet. In colder days in winter it's sometimes jeans and a sweater. If I have to see a client, it's usually nice jeans and a monochrome polo shirt.

            In southern California you almost never see people in suits, to the extent that when I'm in London or even New York, I sometimes stop and wonder why there are so many estate agents and people going to funerals.

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              #7
              Suits are classist, heteronormative, and Eurocentric. Fuck em.

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                #8
                I wear a shirt (sometimes a short-sleeved one - I've not noticed getting different reactions when I do), dark trousers and shoes that would be smart if they weren't worn nearly every day and never polished. I have two pairs of the trousers which I wear in rotation and about 15 shirts, mainly bought second hand. My work outfit causes me no stress and practically no expense.

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                  #9
                  I wear only jeans (various shades of blue, black or grey) to work. Chinos are a pain to iron, plus they never sit well on me. On hot days (over 30 degrees) I permit all male staff to wear shorts. Seeing that I am the only male staff member at present, that doesn't affect create an outbreak of mass shorts-wearing (if I have a meeting that day, I put on my best black jeans). Should an important visitor come, I have a pair of jeans in my office.

                  I have one suit, which I trot out for weddings, embassy receptions and suchlike formal events, and important meetings where I have to assert some authority. Which means it rarely gets an outing.

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                    #10
                    I'm always in work in smart black trousers, shirt and tie which is unusual in my workplace where most people are now casual. If I'm on a site visit it's trainers, jeans and my old coat, in other words clothes I don't mind getting filthy. Yesterday I walked 8 miles checking infrastructure and Thursday about seven miles.

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                      #11
                      I work from home most of the time so it's not an issue. When I am out somewhere at a conference or doing training I usually where what I perceive as "smart" clothes trousers shirt and jacket. Almost never a tie unless it's expected, and oddly the only countries where it seems to be expected these days tend to be ones where suit and tie is not in any way traditional or normal for men (eg the middle east).

                      I think somehow whatever I wear I tend to look scruffy so I'm not sure my occasional smart get out helps in any way. In fact I suspect it actually emphasises my innate scruffiness.

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                        #12
                        Actually as time goes on I find myself doing more and more stuff via video link, such as webinars (yes yes I know it's a horrible word but it is what it is) and have taken to smartening myself up (at least from the waist up) for such things

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                          #13
                          Great thread title.

                          I like wearing suits when i have to.

                          I think a lot of the aims of the Men's Dress Reform Party have come about, in fact.

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                            #14
                            I wear a uniform which is fine by me,it looks shite but means my own clothes stay fresh and clean for when I need them

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                              #15
                              Note of course how Counselor Troi was dressed in that very feminised, nonstandard outfit in the first few series of Next Generation. She did eventually graduate to a 'proper' uniform, which I have no doubt Kim Campbell would be happy about, even if Deanna herself doesn't look too thrilled:

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                                #16
                                I bought a suit back in April 2010. I wore it for an interview for a job. I got the job and haven't worn the suit since...

                                Can't remember the last time that I wore a tie. I'm currently wearing a short-sleeved shirt, 'cause we've got a dance lesson tonight.

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                                  #17
                                  I was away for this when it was first posted, so in response to the inciting incident I'd only say that at least in some cases I question how much said newsreaders are wearing what they like. Do, say, Fox's female newsreaders, have any choice but to display their legs and skin? Do they have any choice not to be blonde, for that matter?

                                  On to the questions
                                  What do you folks wear to work?
                                  If I'm not meeting contacts or going to court, casualish trousers, t-shirt (with jumper in winter) and trainers. Otherwise suit, but no tie.

                                  How much time and effort do you spend on presentation?
                                  Very little
                                  What are the sartorial parameters (written and unwritten) in your workplaces, past or present?
                                  Pretty much as I described. If we have a formal dress policy, I don't know what it is.

                                  Do they feel constrictive?
                                  No.
                                  How would you dress if you could?
                                  As I do on non-suit days

                                  Any really smart or stylish dressers you've worked with?
                                  Quite a few. There are many Italians here.
                                  Any eccentrics who try to bend the rules?
                                  Some, but like I say there aren't really any rules when you're not public facing.
                                  Does anyone Get It Wrong?
                                  Me?
                                  Do you think your presentation has affected the way you are perceived at work?
                                  Has to, doesn't it?
                                  Have you ever felt judged?
                                  Sure, but I don't care.
                                  Who (else) gets judged?
                                  Everyone, I'm sure.
                                  What would it take for you to find someone else's presentation decredibilising or demeaning?
                                  Quite a lot. I don't give a toss about appearance, generally.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    What do you folks wear to work?
                                    Jeans and either a loud dress shirt, or something really cozy / hoodie / fleece in the winter. Merrells or Blundstones.

                                    How much time and effort do you spend on presentation?
                                    Almost none. I iron a shirt.

                                    What are the sartorial parameters (written and unwritten) in your workplaces, past or present?
                                    Almost none. It's advertising. If you're sober and wearing pants, you're probably fine.

                                    Do they feel constrictive? How would you dress if you could?
                                    Exactly as I do now.

                                    Any really smart or stylish dressers you've worked with?
                                    Hell, yes. My boss. Looks like a million bucks every day. Damn, man looks sharp. Owns 80+ pocket squares.

                                    Any eccentrics who try to bend the rules?
                                    Tough to say. The rules are pretty flexible, so bending would really take some work.

                                    Does anyone Get It Wrong?
                                    Nah.

                                    Do you think your presentation has affected the way you are perceived at work?
                                    Absolutely.

                                    Have you ever felt judged?
                                    Absolutely.

                                    Who (else) gets judged?
                                    Women, probably, more than men.

                                    What would it take for you to find someone else's presentation decredibilising or demeaning?
                                    Nothing. I place very little 'weight' on how someone dresses. In this biz, the opinion of the guy in the Jack Daniels t-shirt and ripped jeans carries the same weight as the guy in the $1000 suit.

                                    And do you really want gravitas from your news presenters?
                                    Not gravitas, but credibility.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      What are pocket squares? Very small unfashionable people?

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                                        #20
                                        Aahahahahhaha.

                                        But seriously...a pocket square, yesterday. Maybe the day before.

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                                          #21
                                          A hankie then

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                                            #22
                                            Don't be a rube.

                                            From Real Men Real Style (and they should know) "The pocket square is for show and belongs in your jacket breast pocket. It is normally made from silk, a light-weight cotton or linen, and should be small enough to fold without creating bulk. The handkerchief is for blow and goes in your back or front pants pocket or inside your jacket lower pockets/inside pockets."

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                                              #23
                                              Our work dress code is weirdly specific. No this, no that, no the other. My favoured checked shirt, v-neck jumper, tidy-ish jeans or cords and boots combo has never got me into any bother. Every Friday here is dress down, but I stay the same even then, only substituting a t-shirt in during the summer if it's hot. I don't feel that anyone is particularly judged here on what they wear, to be honest.

                                              When I was in the sixth form at school in 1989, some dolt tried to start a protest because the interpretation of "office wear" that was in the rules - so far as he was concerned - meant that boys had to wear a suit and tie whilst the girls could wear more or less anything other than jeans and t-shirts. I think it fizzled out pretty quickly, but I remember thinking at the time, "Why are you so bothered by what someone else is wearing?"

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                                                #24
                                                I work with a lot of Millennials, so I see a lot of shit I can't abide, but none of it offensive(ish). A lot of really short (flood) pants, pants that are too narrow, ironic cardigans, black knit toques all day long, comically clichéd beards, and shit shoes til Tuesday. But none of it is grievance-worthy, so I just suck it up and shake my head forlornly, old-man stylee.

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                                                  #25
                                                  I've got a comically clichéd beard too! I'm not sure if that's a result or I'm pissed off, or I should get rid of it. Or if no one really gives a shit when you're almost seventy. Except the lady I share a bed with who hates it.

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