Fear of an Orange Planet

[NHH]

I'd have thought populism was a Scandinavian thing does survive to some extent - the same terrain brought forth the CCF (which became the NDP) in Prairie Canada, and across the midwest the populists more generally. I think the same roots - lutheran churches without a priestly caste, equality before God - eventually became entrenched as what we know as Scandinavian social democracy; that Mid West had a tradition in the same vein, from McGovern, to the Lafayettes in Wisconsin, Humphrey and the Democractic-Farmer Labour party in Minnesota.

Sure, pace Frank he's wondered what's the matter with Kansas, but it feels like there's a tradition there for progressive [politics that whilst on the ropes is still there on the ropes, as opposed to never having been there at all.

[Lang Spoon]

Stormont sounds like a made-up name from Game of Thrones.

Haha, not too far from the truth.

[Lang Spoon]

Don't think this has been posted, and too lazy to check. It's utterly damning but, both of the deal and of the legacy of the old Stormont Salamanders. West of the Bann isn't the fucking NW Highlands, where no one in their right mind could justify motorways.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/06/28...t-west-divide/

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

hah, that's just amazing. It's the legacy of a system where one group had all the power (such as it was) and had all of the advantages. The problem with changing this is that switching to equal treatment is seen as a massive defeat for the dominant side. And if you've spent forever funneling infrastructural development to areas dominated by one community, any attempt to address the weaknesses in the national network of infrastructure are going to be seen as favouring one side over the other, rather than addressing an infrastructural imbalance. I didn't know the motorway stopped at the border. That's fucking mental. Were we supposed to build it through armagh or something?

[Lang Spoon]

I don't know if the railway or motorway map is more damning. If I read the report right, the Derry-Belfast project is just to fully dual the road. Meaning some of the main highway is only at National road one lane each way standard. Between the only two real cities in the statelet. Fucking shocking.

[Duncan Gardner]

I was enjoying that thread tangent into Lake Wobegon Days- trust the sage of Kircaldy to drag us back to Dreary Steeple Mopery. Variously,

a) there's been a motorway link to Tyrone since 1968

b) the lack of one to Derry is largely down to the mountain range in the way (much of which is even boggier than the Tyrone stretch above)

c) granted, the rail link's crap (if scenic). The geography as above means it'll always be a slow roundabout route

c) the discriminating one party state which mismanaged all the above hasn't existed since before Banjoculchie and Spoony were born, or at least in nappies

d) Derry just isn't a major city. But as it's right by the border, why don't the Freestaters build their own road through Ballybofey? You could call it the Finn Harps Freeway

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Ah come on DG. You can do a bit better than that. This map in particular is hilarious.



It doesn't look like any motorway map I've ever seen. It looks more like a map of roads between settlements in the west bank. And when you say there is a motorway link to tyrone, To is the operative word it stretches about three miles into tyrone. It also doesn't go to the biggest town in Tyrone, (Omagh) which is twice as big as Dungannon, or Strabane, which is 50% bigger than dungannon. Dungannon is however the biggest protestant town in tyrone,

And Sure Derry isn't a major city, but it is the second biggest city in Northern Ireland, and it is on the other side of the fucking country from belfast. And the Motorway network doesn't even connect to Dublin, or the republic. In most countries Motorways are meant to link the major centres of population, opposite sides of the country, and
Serve the people in between. One of the major reasons that Northern Ireland went from being one of the richest places on earth, to an economically doomed shithole, is because half of the statelet has been completely ignored.

I'm not sure why exactly it's supposed to be up to the Republic to provide Derry with a motorway (Even though we were talking about running a motorway across Northern Ireland to donegal, which would have branched off to Derry) I mean it definitely is in Northern Ireland, and soon it's not going to have any trading links with the south. And while it's true that stormont was dissolved a long time ago, but I don't know if what came since could be described as particularly even handed. I mean look at now. The extra money for infrastructure is going to be used to take money from infrastructural development in the west, to build a bit of motorway in Nigel Dodds' constituency.

The DUP are so fucking stupid, and they simply can't help demonstrating at all times, that they are pig ignorant and malicious.

[Duncan Gardner]

I was joking about the Freeway (and generally I'm probably less keen on building major roads willy-nilly than most people in the South).

Omagh is a small town of 20,000 surrounded by mountains and bogland. Anyone would think from your post it was at the heart of the Ruhr valley.

That said, I believe work is underway to fully dualise the N2/ A5 (Dublin-Derry, henceforth the Aughnacloy Autobahn). And once they put in a couple of bridges at Rathfriland or wherever, the A1 stretch is almost a motorway. Chin up

There's a photo of the Dodds intersection on my FB page. It won't help him locally- Belfast North will go SF next time unless it's abolished. The local Fenians are SO ungrateful

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Stormont talks put off until September. So the DUP and Sinn Fein will resume their discussions, just as Arlene and her advisors are appearing at the RHI inquiry. And after we've heard enough of Arlene explaining why she was giving hundreds of millions to DUP supporting big farmers and businessmen in a time of crippling austerity, I think we'll be having another election. The Dark is closing in on the staunch defenders of the union.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Meanwhile, do you remember the theft of a couple of thousand pallets from Belfast city council???

[Duncan Gardner]

I think we'll be having another election. The Dark is closing in on the staunch defenders of the union

What sort of swing do you expect from Unionism (currently 49%) to Nationalism (41%)?

Meanwhile, do you remember the theft of a couple of thousand pallets from Belfast city council???

UDA leader embarrassed and wanting to avoid conflict? What a heart-warming story

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The Issue for the DUP isn't that the balance between Unionists and Nationalists has changed, it's that they lost a fuckmountain of seats at the last election because they became toxic for transfers. UUP voters transferred to Alliance and SDLP before the DUP. A couple of weeks of public rooting around in Arlene's little personal scandal isn't going to make the DUP any more transfer friendly, and might either discourage DUP voters from going to the polls, or might shave a small number of voters off the DUP's total. They've already lost their veto, and they're not very far from losing their status as the largest party in the Assembly. Think of how embarrassing its going to be for the next leader of the DUP to be the Deputy first minister, particularly to a Sinn Feiner? We're talking about a party that has very very fine margins for error, and they're making nothing but errors.

Then there is the other issue for them to face up to. If they've shut down the assembly for nine months to protect the honour of Arlene Foster, and because of the Irish Language bill, that is going to make a lot of unionist voters very angry with them. At least Sinn Fein voters know they're not going to take up their westminster seats, The Dup voters aren't expecting the DUP to be abstentionist from the Assembly.

As for the Pallets, this little fiasco opens up multiple cans of worms. Why are the UK govt giving so much money to an active gangster? I can understand why belfast city council stores these pallets on harm minimization grounds, but the issue still arises that they are storing stolen goods and then handing them over for illegal purposes, which pose a risk to life, health, and property. It makes it very clear that these are paramilitary bonfires, and it helps drag the UDA and the UVF into the spotlight. But mostly it's hilarious to see just how stupid these people are. The time may have come to crush these organizations. It has to be done sometime, and it has to be the crown that does it, so they should get on with it.

[Duncan Gardner]

The Issue for the DUP isn't that the balance between Unionists and Nationalists has changed, it's that they lost a fuckmountain of seats at the last election because they became toxic for transfers. UUP voters transferred to Alliance and SDLP before the DUP

Er, at the election last month their vote share rose from 28% to 36% (ie UUP and probably AP voters gave them a first preference). That toxicity doesn't seem to have been long-lasting or fatal...

Think of how embarrassing its going to be for the next leader of the DUP to be the Deputy first minister, particularly to a Sinn Feiner? We're talking about a party that has very very fine margins for error, and they're making nothing but errors

For all their errors, Unionist voters are rallying to the strongest/ only credible Unionist party.

If they've shut down the assembly for nine months to protect the honour of Arlene Foster, and because of the Irish Language bill, that is going to make a lot of unionist voters very angry with them

Unionist voters blame SF mainly for closing the Assembly. Riamh! Riamh!

Why are the UK govt giving so much money to an active gangster? The time may have come to crush these organizations

Because they aren't just local gangsters, basically. Locking up every drug dealer in Galway and Limerick would likely mean a localised turf war, hardly a man bites dog story. Ditto in Belfast risks widespread disorder run by paramilitarism

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Meh, first past the post is misleading. There are plenty of constituencies where you don't want the sinn fein candidate to get in, and a vote for anyone else is wasted. We'll see how they do after Arlene gets another proper fucking roasting, and they have the option of voting for the UUP and Alliance. The DUP may be able to shout about the Irish language act, but if this RHI inquiry goes badly for Arlene, you can be sure that Sinn Fein will be reminding everyone that stormont collapsed the last time because of Arlene, and the DUP stayed out of power to protect her.

Because they aren't just local gangsters, basically. Locking up every drug dealer in Galway and Limerick would likely mean a localised turf war, hardly a man bites dog story. Ditto in Belfast risks widespread disorder run by paramilitarism

right, but why are they giving them money, and not crushing them for their gangsterism. It's not as though giving this cunt money has restrained him in any possible way, and it's not normal to hand over entire communities to gangsterism. They locked up every single active member of the INLA, mostly on drugs charges, Because that's what the INLA were. The UDA and UVF have no political component. They're just sectarian gangsters screwing their communities. Either way the British state needs to crush loyalist gangsters, if they ever want to get rid of Northern Ireland, but also to wash away the smell of the time where no-one knew where the UDR ended and the UDA began, or when the UVF was legal. But also, they're the fucking government, they shouldn't be supporting organized crime. It's a foul boil that needs lancing, and it needs to be the Crown that does it.

And if they arrested every drug dealer in Galway, then nothing would happen other than people would drink more, and you might see a few more fights. Galway's just not like that. They have in the past arrested entire gangs in limerick and nothing but good came of it.

[Duncan Gardner]

Not following you here Berba. Anyone primarily not wanting SF to get in (either in a Westminster or Stormont contest) isn't going to vote UUP. West of the Bann Alliance didn't get 5% anywhere in the last Stormont. Even in safe Unionist areas DUP may pick up seats. Despite embarrassment at the RHI Inquiry, which won't overcome the Fear. Although Foster may well have to resign. They'll replace her with someone else from identikit DUP.

I defer to your clearly greater knowledge of the Connacht/ Munster drugs scene.