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    Originally posted by SouthdownRebel View Post
    A failure rate of 100% apparently.
    Now it's 75 from 75. The manufacturer's have withdrawn it from sale. The government are widening the tests to include schools and hospitals.

    This is getting bigger and still some Tories are saying let's wait for the results of the inquiry.

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      Let's include private spec student hutches, private rent Blair builds, and office builds/refurbs inspected as well. I don't know think we'd cope with what would happen to almost every urban area in Britain when the results came in.
      Last edited by Lang Spoon; 26-06-2017, 21:29.

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        Spend millions and bring in draconian laws to stop one guy blowing himself up in a public place and it turns out that Al Qaeda could burn down half the country with a couple of well placed jerry cans.

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          According to some Tory dick on the Today programme this morning Theresa May wasn't lying when she said that it was possible to test 100 samples of the cladding per day and yet in two weeks there had been only 60 samples tested despite the fact that everyone (the testers and the local councils) was working "night and day".

          These "facts" don't stack up do they? Either Theresa May was lying or had been given false information or there's a bottleneck somewhere preventing the testing from running at full speed.

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            https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...cy-say-experts

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              May orders national inquiry after 100% failure rate in high-rise cladding tests
              No 10 says 95 blocks in 32 areas in England, including further 11 in Manchester, have failed checks after Grenfell Tower blaze
              This is from the Guardian, way too late but finally there is some apparent action.

              David Lammy is the most high profile figure to question the death toll using evidence, he says that there were 40 gathered in one flat to pray.

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                Christ.

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                  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...experts-orders

                  And now we find that National Grid had spent three months adding fire-retardant boxing to exposed gas mains, but hadn't completed the work before the fire.

                  It seems likely that the failures were so widespread that it's going to be very difficult to determine the ultimate blame. Which brings us back to government policy and the entire system they are responsible for overseeing.

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                    And lessons being learnt. For a wet week. And no-one goes down cos everyone can't go down.

                    1st dodgy cladding on a student halls found in Edinburgh. New student flat spec developments from Glasgow to Sheffield to Leeds to..., and the refurbs of existing uni housing blocks, they have to be checked out and fast. Some of those things are all cladding and tiny unescapable from windows.

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                      Those gas pipes had all been installed in the staircases and drilled into the flats from there. This makes the walls less fire resistant if the holes haven't been filled in properly even if the pipes have been boxed in.

                      This pushing back of red tape through deregulation has been ongoing for 35 years or so has to stop but with the UK determined to leave the EU I'm really worried that things are going to get worse.

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                        Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                        And lessons being learnt. For a wet week. And no-one goes down cos everyone can't go down.

                        1st dodgy cladding on a student halls found in Edinburgh. New student flat spec developments from Glasgow to Sheffield to Leeds to..., and the refurbs of existing uni housing blocks, they have to be checked out and fast. Some of those things are all cladding and tiny unescapable from windows.
                        It seems to me that all cladding is unsafe especially on buildings over a certain number of floors, probably only 6. This is going to be an expensive and time consuming business to remove them all.

                        Camden really deserve praise for acting swiftly, I understand it's tough for residents but this may save lives.

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                          Scotland signing off all its council/HA reclads as safe so quickly is not filling me with confidence, unless there is a severe difference in the enforcement of fire regulations.

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                            Think it's only one wing on the Embra Halls that failed tests, but if all cladding really is unsafe, Premier Inn might be the most fucked of all. Cheap metallic plasticy grey cladding seems their default, whether new builds or reclad towers.

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                              Premier Inn have already said they are worried and a number of their buildings are probably unsafe.

                              So what was the fascination with cladding, aesthetics or insulation?

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                                The four buildings in Camden that have been evacuated need 1000 fire doors fitting, my basic maths gives that as 10 per floor. This is going way beyond cladding.

                                Every retired fire officer I've seen interviewed is damning of the whole system of fire checks.

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                                  That was the point I was driving at earlier Antep, it's starting to feel like there's very little that is up to the required standard. There's a much broader scandal to be unearthed besides the cladding. I strongly suspect the answers to why will be rooted in costs - the inevitable result of a system that is founded on the principle of achieving more from less at every stage. Eventually something has to give, and Grenfell was that something.

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                                    Premier Inn have already said they are worried and a number of their buildings are probably unsafe.

                                    So what was the fascination with cladding, aesthetics or insulation?


                                    Both, insulates on the cheap, the new cladding or render makes cooncil buildings or old office blocks look less ghastly. Concrete was vile don't you know. So beautiful ugly things like the Tricorn, or the Gateshead car park were torn down. And if the building was to be saved, give it a new jaicket. To be fair, exposed concrete does look like shit in the general British climate if it isn't well-maintained. Which is probably the third reason for cladding. Wipe clean a 24 storey high rise like it was a giant upended McDonald's table. Cheap as chips upkeep.
                                    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 27-06-2017, 20:31.

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                                      Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                      Cheap as chips upkeep.
                                      With an expensive as fuck aesthetic. Who cares if it's unsafe, look at the quality.

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                                        Yeah, and usually the council redoes are ten years in style behind the fashion forward private sector treats. So still white render when cheap spec developments were all about barcode windows and cladding, still putting silly triangle hats on blocks when po-mo was reduced to a bunch of wanks fucking around with a few low rise blocks of a Manchester "regen" Pathfinder area. But most of the Glasgow cladding of the last 10 years seems to be grey plastic cladding (there are HA flats overlooking the Green where the Gorbals hits the river I think look great, but how safe is the new skin really?)

                                        How much of Brum, Manchester, Glasgow, Leeds new/refurb office blocks of the last 15 years or so might also be at risk? They do apply things stringently in the City of London, strange they don't shit and cut costs in their own backyard, but Boris's new Battersea of money laundering bullshit? Docklands? Remember the Dubai fire. Costs are cut just as horribly in the private sector, especially if a city is desperate for any development, planning officers' objections may be on deaf ears.
                                        Last edited by Lang Spoon; 27-06-2017, 21:07.

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                                          Leo's shambles/dublin city council seems to have been very quiet on this also. I'm sure developments here may have had similar suppliers tendering at least. Are any tests ongoing in Ireland? There's a whole IFSC of shit commercial architecture let alone what might have gone up in the residential sector.

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                                            Grenfell residents' groups compile lists of victims and survivors and they say there are a minimum of 120 dead.

                                            https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

                                            There's also a video embedded in the article of the interview with David Lammy.

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                                              The final toll of the Grenfell Flats fire won't be known this year, according to the police.

                                              http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40434741

                                              Problems due to identification, who was where, people moved up the tower to try and get away from the flames and there not being enough remains left to test. I don't really know what to say.

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                                                Grenfell Tower death toll may not be known until end of year, say police

                                                https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

                                                This also includes the number of companies being investigated, that's up to 60 and rising.

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                                                  The TMO Tenant Management Organisation gave a list of residents to the police, it was inaccurate. No wonder the surviving residents are convinced that many more people than the 80 confirmed dead or missing presumed dead have actually perished in this disaster.

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                                                    That TMO, fuck. Don't they have any obligation to keep an accurate building manifest?

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