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Grenfell flats fire

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    Locals are angry, not only with tragedy itself but increasingly with the intrusion of outsiders:

    Having spent an hour down there this morning meetings friends old and new. Let me tell, the anger on the street is palpable. Anyone who stops and talks to friends etc are being approached by journalists. We got approached by two in five minutes. One div from the Wall Street Journal asked us 'what kind of people lived in the block?' . 'Humans' we replied. Then he asked ' what nationalities lived there?' So I told him to read the uk papers to find your info it's well documemented. It appears you can't walk down certain streets unless you're a journalist. The scene is being treated like a big event with certain 'VIP' people getting access to all areas. Meanwhile locals can't go and visit friends. I managed to get access as a friend of a friend lived beyond the barriers.

    As for anger, I got a bit angry with the amount of people on Latimer Rd station platforms and the train taking pictures of the building. It's wrong on every level. Those peoples last moments were captured live on TV and now people are rubber necking. I expect an open top tour bus to go past in the next week. Saddest thing I've ever seen in my life.

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      They are giving Top Media privileged fenced off private access to the site? Locals be damned. So rotten a city, a country, the wrong people always in charge.

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        That twitter feed reporting British news as if we were some rogue tinpot state, never so appropriate as now. The level of negligence and malfeasance leading to hell that folk shrug their shoulders about and say typical when it happens in Poor World. This is the end result of TINA, The Third Way, Workfare, the control of local finance from the Treasury (barring Lunnon and the Sexy cities of England, and the devolved fiscal trapped devolvers, still all hamstrung whether London or Manc or Holyrood to an extent greater than most regions or cities of Europe (ignoring similarly centralised Ireland)), decanting refugees and forgetting in whatever sub prime a council can find, substandard services for all-and Christ I don't mean that to sound refugee blaming, bad phrasing, was about councils from London to Glasgow under Blair to May approval of hosting asylum seekers in substandard accommodation- letting the market set regulation for almost every industry as far as the EU would allow, permanent austerity, a forty plus year growing boil.
        Last edited by Lang Spoon; 17-06-2017, 00:23.

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          The elderly and infirm were not placed on the top floors. No-one in their right mind would do this

          A Twitter thread explaining how and why disabled people get housed on the top floors

          I take the view that whenever the SWP get involved in a cause it instantly loses credibility.

          They turn up. They're not invited. When I attended the Lucy Meadows vigil outside the Mail offices some of their placards were in evidence. What were we supposed to do, start a ruck with them? At a vigil for a dead woman? They'll organise demos while being coy about being involved (eg last night's one in central London). Many people are ignorant about what cunts they are. Please don't discredit a cause just because these arseholes show up.
          Last edited by delicatemoth; 17-06-2017, 09:37.

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            Originally posted by delicatemoth View Post
            The elderly and infirm were not placed on the top floors. No-one in their right mind would do this

            A Twitter thread explaining how and why disabled people get housed on the top floors

            That link, and the comments on it would certainly reflect my experience in the past with social housing - the lack of accessible property is widespread, and when I was in the position of needing to find somewhere accessible, you end up accepting somewhere not quite right (like struggling to get up a couple of steps), for fear of turning something down and ending up on the bottom of the waiting list, and continuing to stay in somewhere even worse.

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              Yep,also cases where you need a wheelchair accessible property,friend was crawling upstairs for over a year until such a place became available.More generally,it took us well over a year for independent egress to be ensured in own home,not a moan,we were fortunate,just an outlining.It's a national scandal,frustratingly with judicious investment,that horrible word regulations(they ditched sensible ones to ease future adaptions in houses)some of it at very low level,and planning,the eventual financial savings,not to say improvement in lives would be astronomical.

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                Corbyn on Twitter publishes his letter to May.

                I've finally added the link below.
                Last edited by Antepli Ejderha; 17-06-2017, 10:34.

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                  https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycor...ger-grows-live

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                    Locals are again complaining about the lack of coordination at the scene and are worried that many of the donations could spoil.

                    The Hammersmith tube line has again been closed due to concerns about the safety of the building.

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                      Theresa May is going to meet some of those affected but again she's not going to the scene but conducting the meeting at number ten. She, and her advisers, really lack basic skills of empathy and compassion.

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                        Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                        The Hammersmith tube line has again been closed due to concerns about the safety of the building.
                        They've clarified this, they worry is about falling debris rather than the structure of the building itself.

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                          Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                          Theresa May is going to meet some of those affected but again she's not going to the scene but conducting the meeting at number ten. She, and her advisers, really lack basic skills of empathy and compassion.
                          They just don't fucking try, and they don't fucking care. The woman is completely appalled by the great unwashed. I guarantee she carries a small tube of bactericidal lotion to rub on her hands in case she comes into contact with poor people.

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                            The Met say 58 are missing and presumed dead.

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                              A spokeswoman for the mayor of London has told the Guardian that the British Red Cross is now leading the volunteer effort on the ground around Grenfall Tower. However, a spokeswoman for the Red Cross has said she was not aware of the news.
                              They cannot even get the basics right. It's since been clarified who will be leading the relief effort but it's a disorganised uncoordinated mess.

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                                There's been some discussion locally about how Grenfell differed from four other towers on the estate. From an ex-resident:

                                The rest of the estate is the four towers and four low level maisonettes blocks. If you look at those towers, every sixth floor they have a large landing (white in colour). I remember asking Terry the caretaker why they had these white landing things. He said that if a fire broke out in the block residents could go to the landings and wait to be rescued. There's one on the 6th 12th and 18th floors. Each and every flat has a balcony as well. The escape staircase is at the front of the building with glass windows. Grenfell's stairs are totally enclosed so are dark even in daylight let alone with acrid smoke. And there are no balconies whatsoever in Grenfell as we all know.

                                The four towers mentioned were completed in the late 60s several years prior to Grenfell. I've long believed this was transition period marking the end of a balance (more or less) between production and consumption in post-industrial societies. The UK of the sixties still made most of the stuff it bought, from TVs and cars, to soap and cornflakes. That had begun to change by the early seventies and created systemic problems that have worsened exponentially ever since. Now people in the UK (and elsewhere) buy far more than they produce. Consumption, of course, requires income and if there's no opportunity to make any then — either individually or collectively — you get short shrift. The building of Grenfell marks that point. A few years earlier public projects got similar attention, and financing, to private ones. I know this as my Dad was an architect whose firm worked on both. A few years later and the game had changed, corners were cut, materials scrimped, and costs "trimmed." This disaster is not just a present-day tragedy but, should be, a lesson in modern history.
                                Last edited by Amor de Cosmos; 17-06-2017, 17:06.

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                                  I'll just leave this here. Another forgotten voice. The front line of Tory cuts and a bloke doing his best.

                                  This quote is from from a poster on blue and amber the Shrewsbury Town site.

                                  "This is my patch. I could write a book on the last few days. It's been chaotic, desperately sad, baking hot. It's felt like half of the country has either sent a chunck of their property across or turned up or done both. We've been bombarded by Amazon, DHL, Monsoon, M&S, EE, TalkTalk as well as thousands of well wishers etc. We have official rest centres crammed with donations, two town halls rammed and donations flowing out of pop up community centres. The council has literally ground to a halt to processes donations, support with logistics, support housing colleagues, volunteer at rest centres. It has also drawn upon the support of colleagues in Westminster and Hammersmith & Fulham LA.

                                  This part of North Ken and in and around the Town Hall looks and feels like a warzone, residents are devastated and staff are likewise devastated.

                                  There have been failures and are plenty of lessons to be learnt- but contrary to what the press will tell you the council has focused on council specific rest centres. Centres that have Housing officers, LAS, Dr's, nurses, adult and children's social workers, clothing, food, the red cross, police input and mental health practitioners. We have tried directing residents to these centres and using them as hubs. Unfortunately the one downside of such an overwhelming community response is that Mosques, churches, sports halls and all manner of places have popped up as refuge centres and somewhat confused the messaging. The council has either been too slow to respond to these centres and ineffectively coordinated with them, not had the resources (staff) to put in all of these pop up centres, made the strategic decision to try and work through an official hub base or all of the above.

                                  I have been to the Westway (gym with 300 places to sleep that the Queen visited) and have helped coordinate another rest centre on the first day. I can assure you that there have been plentiful of council volunteers present trying to support residents. The Borough Emergency Centre is in operation 24 hours a day trying to manage and coordinate .

                                  Unfortunately we lack two things information about missing people and the permission/support of senior police officials to help us manage the expectation and comms with residents on the ground.

                                  I can fully understand why residents are so ****ed off and I accept the logic that they need to make noise and create momentum before the world loses interest in this story.

                                  I also accept criticism of the chaotic nature of the council's response. I would however say that any local authority would struggle to deal with a 36 hour blaze in the heart of the community that incinerated 120 flats, displaced/killed upto 600 residents as well as having to evacuate hundreds of other residents from neighbouring blocks.

                                  I accept that blame will be apportioned and it will likely fall on elected officials within the LA, senior managers at the TMO and likely impact upon the government, with the buck finishing at the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea.

                                  I've mixed with young eloquent women demanding answers that I can't give about their missing family. I've been told I am lying and part of a government conspiracy by a teenager who has lost 5 members of his family. I've been shouted at by a resident who accused me of plotting to break up the community. I've coordinated with senior managers at acute trusts to discharge patients who's children are intensive care or who's family have died and who's house has burnt down.

                                  I've protected old ladies from outbreaks of violence between residents and police and used my body as a shield to prevent a women having seizures getting crushed as a crowd surged the rest centre. I've carried people to medical attention and like my colleagues tried to support our community. But in this environment this is not enough. Nothing we do will be enough and I get that, I understand, but please know we are doing the best we can to help, to support, to comfort, to house and to give answers and link family members.

                                  And all of this time, despite having a home and a family to go back to I have felt empty, like my colleagues I feel there is more that I should be doing. I look at the evening standard and I have to withhold the tears, I find myself silently crying as I watch newsnight. RBKC, TMO and the community of North ken will never be the same again. No amount of hard work, sorrow or support will make these residents feel any better. They need recognition and respect, they demand answers and they want blood, but most importantly, the one thing we can't provide atm they want information about the 100+ people to charred to identify in Grenfell and dare I presuppose the numerous unofficial residents who were crashing on sofa's or unofficially living with tenants.

                                  Sorry for the ramble"

                                  Read more: http://blueandamber.proboards.com/th...#ixzz4kI0MaDON
                                  Last edited by NickSTFU; 18-06-2017, 05:35.

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                                    What a post, Nick.

                                    It's been reported a few times that there's nobody from the council there, nobody in charge etc. That's bad enough even without the rubbish about D-Notices and casualties being suppressed.

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                                      That's a really moving post Nick. It sounds like you're really going through it. Thoughts are with you mate.

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                                        Originally posted by hobbes View Post
                                        That's a really moving post Nick. It sounds like you're really going through it. Thoughts are with you mate.
                                        One of the best posts of this thread I think. Very informative and thank you for sharing.

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                                          Yeah, thanks for that Nick, and hope you're okay.

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                                            Blimey, this is embarrassing.

                                            What I posted is from a bloke with the handle of 'Shambles' on Blue and Amber the main Shrewsbury Town site. The link is at the bottom. I played football with/against him years ago.

                                            I realise I could have done the post better (quote marks for example), so deepest apologies for any confusion.

                                            This is all rather awkward.

                                            sorry again.

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                                              Thanks for the post Nick (I know it's not yours but thanks anyway).

                                              This kind of thing makes me so angry...

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                                                YouTube already full of "truthers" wondering why Grenfell tower didn't collapse like the WTC.

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                                                  It does indeed look like the council are using this as an opportunity for social cleansing.

                                                  Also, where there's a tragedy there's an opportunity.
                                                  Last edited by delicatemoth; 18-06-2017, 09:11.

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                                                    Philip Hammond on the Andrew Marr show today was another prefect example of a Tory MP so out of touch, he talked about the complex technical issues involved about fitting sprinkler systems.

                                                    Iirc Spreadsheet Phil owns care homes, do they have sprinkler systems fitted?

                                                    Andrew Marr also said that they cladding used is banned in the EU. He pressed Hammond on what would happen to other buildings that have used this, Hammond again avoided.

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