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    #51
    I read it as others. Rydon would be the principle, and sub out the actual work to dozens of sub-trades.

    I don't see "fast" in my quote above. However speed is always part of the equation. What never changes is the production "triangle." It doesn't matter whether you're building flats, shopping centres, or magazines. There's Speed, Cost, and Quality and a project manager should always expect, and be able to deliver, two out of three. Which two he/she chooses however is crucial. Unfortunately only the first two are objectively measurable, the third frequently requires experience to evaluate. Which refers back to the point in my previous post. If the person with oversight responsibility lacks the requisite knowledge and experience then they tend to fall back on the first two, because they're easier to justify. So all too frequently, fast & cheap win the day.
    Last edited by Amor de Cosmos; 15-06-2017, 23:15.

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      #52
      Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
      The statement about the infirm being on higher floors was on C4 news, where a local claimed an old lady she knew who had had a stroke was on the 25th floor.
      Hence why I used apparently Paul S. Thanks for sourcing my info Snake.

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        #53
        Edit: SDR linked to the sources do I've deleted.
        Last edited by Antepli Ejderha; 15-06-2017, 23:25.

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          #54
          https://mobile.twitter.com/akalamusi...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

          Lots of good stuff by Akala on his Twitter, some really good links and opinion.

          This is political, this is so fucking political.

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            #55
            Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
            What others have said. Appalling. God only knows how many dead there are near the top of the building. It feels a bit like Katrina.

            Different things will jump out to different people at this stage. One thing with me, and a broadbrush politics thing, is the way the Coalition forced a level of cuts on to councils that it didn't want to front up for itself. Then it stuck a de facto 1.99% cap on councils. The goon Pickles fretted about Christmas lights and weekly bin collections being cut, not maintenance of buildings like Grenfell.

            Not to mention Boris Johnson cutting so many fire services down, and closing several stations, and telling a London Assembly member to "get stuffed" when challenged on it.

            https://twitter.com/paulgslatter/status/874997940166819842

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              #56
              This article from March this year: http://www.frmjournal.com/news/news_...31709AC5C81B2D

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                #57
                Absolute scum

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                  #58
                  Dear Theresa May,

                  Brenda went and visited the victims today but you cannot because it's not safe.

                  Get a fucking grip and go face the wrath of the public.

                  Btw they are going to be even more angry than before because of your cowardly actions before.

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                    #59
                    Thirty dead now and that number is expected to rise.

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                      #60
                      It's time to boycott the Express in the same way that Liverpool boycotts the Scum after Hillsborough.

                      The death toll has almost doubled again, it's now 30.

                      Paul S. Is it political now?

                      Edit: at least 30
                      Last edited by Antepli Ejderha; 16-06-2017, 11:33.

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                        #61
                        Christ. This looks likely to be the biggest single loss of life in the UK since 2005, and if it's as bad as some suggest since Lockerbie. It's monstrous.

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                          #62
                          Mail and Sun arguably worse in using image of the 'Ethiopian' whose fridge 'caused' the deaths

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                            #63
                            Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                            Paul S. Is it political now?

                            Edit: at least 30
                            Sadly yes, although the criticism of Theresa May is interesting. She was in Paris at a conference and flew back (presumably to RAF Northolt) and then went straight to Kensington. Apparently she decided not to meet people as she didn't want emergency service resources taken away from the rescue effort. Given she called a needless election, she is pretty much damned whatever she does right now.

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                              #64
                              Since stepping down as an MP Osbourne has started too surprise, I thought it was revenge against May but he might be doing more. Their cartoon of the burnt out block with police tape around it saying crime scene isn't much but it does challenge the Tory narrative.

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                                #65
                                Originally posted by Paul S View Post
                                Sadly yes, although the criticism of Theresa May is interesting. She was in Paris at a conference and flew back (presumably to RAF Northolt) and then went straight to Kensington. Apparently she decided not to meet people as she didn't want emergency service resources taken away from the rescue effort. Given she called a needless election, she is pretty much damned whatever she does right now.
                                How would meeting victims take emergency services away from the rescue? Surely meeting the firefighters as she did, took them away from the front line*, unlike Corbyn meeting the grieving.

                                (*Not that I actually have an issue with her meeting and - I presume - thanking the emergency services)

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                                  #66
                                  Originally posted by Felicity, I guess so View Post
                                  Mail and Sun arguably worse in using image of the 'Ethiopian' whose fridge 'caused' the deaths
                                  I thought that was only a rumour on social media. Most early reports had blamed gas works.

                                  Blame the black immigrant is obviously a better narrative.

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                                    #67
                                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                    How would meeting victims take emergency services away from the rescue? Surely meeting the firefighters as she did, took them away from the front line*, unlike Corbyn meeting the grieving.

                                    (*Not that I actually have an issue with her meeting and - I presume - thanking the emergency services)
                                    So Brenda and the Sciver took up valuable resources then according to Paul S if we follow that logic.

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                                      #68
                                      Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                                      Since stepping down as an MP Osbourne has started too surprise, I thought it was revenge against May but he might be doing more. Their cartoon of the burnt out block with police tape around it saying crime scene isn't much but it does challenge the Tory narrative.
                                      He'll not be so quick to jump in when it comes out that his slashing of council budgets was part of the cause.

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                                        #69
                                        More Sun shittiness https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...P=share_btn_tw

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                                          #70
                                          Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                          No lessons learnt from phone hacking then, I thought the regulations were strong enough?

                                          They really are Scum

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                                            #71
                                            Originally posted by Paul S View Post
                                            Sadly yes, although the criticism of Theresa May is interesting. She was in Paris at a conference and flew back (presumably to RAF Northolt) and then went straight to Kensington. Apparently she decided not to meet people as she didn't want emergency service resources taken away from the rescue effort. Given she called a needless election, she is pretty much damned whatever she does right now.
                                            Sorry Paul that's desperate bullshit. She just looks a desperate coward at best, callous at worst. Khan met the people and faced their anger, why couldn't she?

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                                              #72
                                              Cladding for Grenfell Tower was cheaper, more flammable option, supplier confirms
                                              Omnis Exteriors asked to supply cladding that was 2 cheaper per square metre than fire-resistant version, investigation confirms.

                                              The Guardian confirms what we already suspected.

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                                                #73
                                                Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                                That's just sick.

                                                I try not to get upset at things like this, it doesn't do me any good and I can't help when tragedies happen.
                                                But this fire has made me so angry, the continued treatment of the lower class as utter shit by the privallged few. And as we learn more about the tangled web of warnings and cost cutting, it's even more infuriating.

                                                I hope this goes to the top in terms of punishment but I fear it won't and in 5 years no one will care.

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                                                  #74
                                                  https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/875699346767056898

                                                  In summary,

                                                  Slags off Labour
                                                  Defends own mayoralty
                                                  Points to Sadq Khan
                                                  Asks why people are politicising this now

                                                  Cunt.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Welcome superstu64

                                                    It is extraordinarily difficult to disagree with those views.

                                                    I only wish the circumstances of your arrival were more positive.

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