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    #26
    Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
    Yep. Looking at the building on TV and hearing that the advice was to stay in your flat it tragically does not surprise.

    The anger is starting now. May avoiding the public is just typical of her. At least Khan faced the wrath of the public.

    The elderly and infirm were placed in higher floors apparently.
    There's been references to children living there too.

    Snow overdid it a bit, I thought, with Andy Slaughter. "Apologize to your party for your loosening fire regulations". He mentioned something about the fire service not having to do something as of 2005, but Slaughter (who used to lead Hammersmith and Fulham and knows more about it than Snow) said LAs had to do what was Snow was referring to.

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      #27
      Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
      Yep. Looking at the building on TV and hearing that the advice was to stay in your flat it tragically does not surprise.

      The anger is starting now. May avoiding the public is just typical of her. At least Khan faced the wrath of the public.

      The elderly and infirm were placed in higher floors apparently.
      Lower than vermin, an eternal truth. Wtf is the thinking behind stacking those dependant on lifts at the top floors?

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        #28
        There is a massive potential for civil disobedience, mass protests and/or civil disorder and riots. Reading Amor's post, this is hellish. We could be talking recent events in Romania or some chaotic Gordon Riots type thing.

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          #29
          Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
          The elderly and infirm were placed in higher floors apparently.
          Think about what you have just said and think about it rationally. No-one from any political wing would ever do that. Not left wing, right wing, Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SNP, BNP, Sinn Feinn, DUP would ever do something like that. That is pure speculation on your part and I would even go so far as to say it is total and utter bullsh*t. People are always quick to jump on the Daily Mail, the Express et al for blaming immigrants and foreigners and whipping up hysteria and quite rightly so, but the left are equally as guilty of doing this. Particularly with Lang Spoon and the following comment:

          Lower than vermin, an eternal truth. Wtf is the thinking behind stacking those dependant on lifts at the top floors?
          THINK. Turn your bullshit-ometer off and think about what you are saying and then think again. This is an utter tragedy which people are already using for political advantage. The elderly and infirm were not placed on the top floors. No-one in their right mind would do this and if this is what you wish to peddle then you are no better than the extremists on the other side of the spectrum who blame foreigners for everything.

          Rant over.
          Last edited by Paul S; 15-06-2017, 20:30.

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            #30
            "This is an utter tragedy which people are already using for political advantage."

            Political advantage I'm not sure about. But this is political. At every level. And the only ones not interested in it being politicised are those to blame.

            "Rant over"? haha

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              #31
              Being angry at the authorities isn't like being angry at immigrants, is it?

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                #32
                Still, Paul S as a voice of reason. What with the new board and all I'm very uneasy with it all.

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                  #33
                  Originally posted by EIM View Post
                  Still, Paul S as a voice of reason. What with the new board and all I'm very uneasy with it all.
                  Get used to it. Things are different now.

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                    #34
                    What an utterly horrific tragedy. I can only echo the thoughts of those above.

                    I have to admit, I'm thankful I no longer live in a tall tower block, never again.

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                      #35
                      Fucking Simon Jenkins "The lesson is simple: stop building towers" yeah that's the answer isn't it?

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                        #36
                        Some of the photos on the BBC News website remind me of the aftermath of 9/11. It's just horrible (not for that reason, of course) and criminal and I can't help but think how much worse it's going to get when the numbers and the names and the ages and the life stories are known.

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                          #37
                          Originally posted by Paul S View Post
                          Think about what you have just said and think about it rationally. No-one from any political wing would ever do that. Not left wing, right wing, Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SNP, BNP, Sinn Feinn, DUP would ever do something like that. That is pure speculation on your part and I would even go so far as to say it is total and utter bullsh*t. People are always quick to jump on the Daily Mail, the Express et al for blaming immigrants and foreigners and whipping up hysteria and quite rightly so, but the left are equally as guilty of doing this. Particularly with Lang Spoon and the following comment:



                          THINK. Turn your bullshit-ometer off and think about what you are saying and then think again. This is an utter tragedy which people are already using for political advantage. The elderly and infirm were not placed on the top floors. No-one in their right mind would do this and if this is what you wish to peddle then you are no better than the extremists on the other side of the spectrum who blame foreigners for everything.

                          Rant over.
                          Lower than vermin was meant for Theresa scurrying away from meeting the plebs. Bevan was and always will be right about the Tory party. I take your point about the stacking of the lame and the halt.
                          Last edited by Lang Spoon; 15-06-2017, 21:37.

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                            #38
                            The statement about the infirm being on higher floors was on C4 news, where a local claimed an old lady she knew who had had a stroke was on the 25th floor.

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                              #39
                              I saw one expert on the news who talked about new "methods" of building possibly not being safe. Not "materials", methods, very definitely.

                              Does anybody know what they might have been getting at?

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                                #40
                                The three most traditionally sought after (this is Fife, there was definite cache with certain schemes with a view) high rises in my hometown cater predominately (where it's not buy to let tenants instead) are over 50s as the median age. Seniors that are still council renting or bought their gaff when you still could in Scotland, 14 floors up, one lift one emergency exit per block. Recently reclad in icky yellow plastic/render. 24 storey (quite gorgeous mini Balfron) in Glasgow Anniesland is mostly duplexes of the over 50s, and was always meant for the respectable working class post kids Weegie couple.

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                                  #41
                                  AM sure the widespread zero experience of housing the housing Minister has fills all with confidence such issues will be addressed.

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                                    #42
                                    Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                                    I saw one expert on the news who talked about new "methods" of building possibly not being safe. Not "materials", methods, very definitely.

                                    Does anybody know what they might have been getting at?
                                    There are comments in this article that talk about the way that materials are used - e.g. building in fire breaks etc. Suggestions here that fire stops may have been removed or compromised.
                                    Last edited by SouthdownRebel; 15-06-2017, 22:13.

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                                      #43
                                      Thank you very much. That's interesting.

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                                        #44


                                        Reports that the price difference for panels that would have met international standards was 2 quid per panel.

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                                          #45
                                          This from someone who's been a site manager on similar renos

                                          Existing property stock, especially in London, is a nightmare.

                                          We know things now that weren't ever considered in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's ... you follow I'm sure.
                                          You simply cannot do certain upgrades due to physical types of construction and therefore your duty is simply "to make efforts" and lots of the time that is only when carrying out refurb works.
                                          The only solution is demo and re-build. There is no way ú300k would fit you a sprinkler system, for example, in that block covering the communal areas, you simply couldn't or wouldn't fit it in the dwellings.

                                          For instance, when the DDA Regs came in it was a nightmare for many businesses; how could they install ramps, Ambulant WC's etc when they wouldn't actually fit into their areas to the Regulation sizes????

                                          This tragic and horrible event is NOT however one of those. The primary issue above all others is Life Safety works and fire compartmenting is numero uno. Fire breaks can be installed relatively easy by use of the right products and can be achieved by a simply over boarding of ceilings etc. Fire escapes can be made 2 hour fire rated if planned correctly and should be vented and lit correctly, if nothing else they become refuges for those wanting to escape and are vital for the brigade and their own safety.

                                          I'd suspect this may be an Estates Management Contract under the "Better Homes Initiative" and part of a pack but more likely a one off tender. So the cheapest price usually awarded the job and successful Contractor will only employ Managers and everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, is sub-contracted out. Margins are still tight my friend!! I work in the higher end commercial sector and can assure you whilst money is made nobody is "coining it in"

                                          However, there's people who have lost people, people who have lost everything and people who I am sure will lose their liberty in a few years time. The last on that list deserve no sympathy IF they are proved to be willfully negligent.

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                                            #46
                                            Nice of them to stick some bollocks at the top of that scoop. I don't know "requistioning" works, but the most likely properties to be vacant are top end ones. Corbyn is correct about that.

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                                              #47
                                              Amor, re outsourcing there's a chart on here showing who was supposed to do what. It's about 6 hours ago (it's from a page that was updated live)

                                              https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...k-blaze-latest

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                                                #48
                                                Thanks. The phrase "Sub-contracted multiple other firms to work on the project," in Rydon's box, speaks volumes.

                                                One of the issues the guy I quote above mentioned in another post is the lack of building experience at the Corporate — or in this case Council — level. I think he's about my age, and makes the point that people contracting out this type of work used to have people on staff with solid backgrounds in construction. Now they just seem to have management, or financial qualifications. If true, it's a very salient point.
                                                Last edited by Amor de Cosmos; 15-06-2017, 22:53.

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                                                  #49
                                                  Is that referring to the companies on the chart or to others, I wonder.

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                                                    #50
                                                    I'm interested by what was said in your post about commercial building being a particularly "fast" part of the industry. Obviously, it's much worse if there are dangers with residential buildings, but could there be problems with commercial buildings too? Lots of those get reclad.

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