Grenfell flats fire

[Antepli Ejderha]

Kensington and Chelsea council has been relieved of responsibility for taking care of the survivors of the Grenfell Tower disaster.

The work is being handed over to a new Grenfell Fire Response Team, made up of representatives from central government, the British Red Cross, the Metropolitan police, London-wide local and regional government and the London Fire Brigade.

Finally there will be some coordination and someone to lead this, why did it have to take so long?

[Sean of the Shed]

Perhaps better to start another thread for that than get at cross purposes on this one.

[Paul S]

As if Grenfell wasn't bad enough, forest fires in Portugal have killed 61 victims:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40320411

[Tubby Isaacs]

I think he's directly involved with Corbyn/ Labour too. Here he is correcting a Tory MP on the amendment Labour had voted down on rented accommodation last year. He help write the amendment.

https://twitter.com/nearlylegal/stat...37016102092800

[Snake Plissken]

Did Hammond really say that the cladding used is illegal in the UK? If it is and he said it that company and their directors are fucked.

At the risk of being a conspiracy theorist, that feels right up there with "ticketless Liverpool fans forced the gates open". He has no idea what cladding was used.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Apologies if that came out as complacent, Delicatemoth.

Literally straight after that tweet, he said.

Nearly Legal @nearlylegal 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @nearlylegal
4. London councils have been sending homeless to TA in Brum, Stoke, Telford for ages. NOW you all notice?

He's one of the good guys.

[delicatemoth]

I can't read that tweet. Somebody has gone to Preston? Does the tweeter know for sure why, or for how long?

For all sorts of reasons, including what the Shrewsbury bloke said, we have to give the council the benefit of the doubt that they're trying to sort things out properly.

The man in the video, who was a Grenfell resident, tells how one former resident has been decanted into an old people's home and another has been 'offered' relocation in Preston, which if turned down means the person is deemed to be intentionally homeless. This is standard and is known to anyone who relies on social housing. It's what various London councils have been doing for ages. Giving the council the benefit of the doubt means not listening to people tell their stories and is how these fuckers get away with it.

[Fussbudget]

I can't read that tweet. Somebody has gone to Preston? Does the tweeter know for sure why, or for how long?

It's a video of a resident of the tower, who says that one of the residents has been sent to Preston, and another one has been put in a care home instead of being rehoused.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Inquest here signal strong support for the public inquiry.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/media/pr/i...ell-tower-fire


I think it's irresponsible for the Independent to be giving credence to the idea that the government is acting to block an inquest.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Did Hammond really say that the cladding used is illegal in the UK? If it is and he said it that company and their directors are fucked.

Some people are calling for an inquest and others are demanding a full public inquiry, excuse my ignorance but what is the major difference here?

[Tubby Isaacs]

There as some money going in already, I think. There's something called Bellwin for emergencies.Sajid Javid invoked it the day before the Ł5m.

Also from a housing lawyer, just now.

Nearly Legal @nearlylegal 4m4 minutes ago
On homeless #grenfall survivors being sent to TA in Preston. 1 This is rumour, so far at least. 2 If true, will have to be returned soon

[johnr]

Many of the individuals are trying very hard, evidently. And - despite them, by all accounts, being a bunch of shits - K&C Council have been blindsided by the scale of the tragedy. But the lack of a co-ordinated central response by the Government has been woeful, and appears to have greatly contributed to the confusion. They should have poured money and resources in, yet it took them about a day and a half to offer Ł5m.

I don't know why I'm saying this here. I know you all know it.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It does indeed look like the council are using this as an opportunity for social cleansing.

Also, where there's a tragedy there's an opportunity.

I can't read that tweet. Somebody has gone to Preston? Does the tweeter know for sure why, or for how long?

For all sorts of reasons, including what the Shrewsbury bloke said, we have to give the council the benefit of the doubt that they're trying to sort things out properly.

[Antepli Ejderha]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarrShow

The best that I have been able to find so far, scroll down and it's the third one down on the Grenfell Tower disaster.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Philip Hammond on the Andrew Marr show today was another prefect example of a Tory MP so out of touch, he talked about the complex technical issues involved about fitting sprinkler systems.

Iirc Spreadsheet Phil owns care homes, do they have sprinkler systems fitted?

Andrew Marr also said that they cladding used is banned in the EU. He pressed Hammond on what would happen to other buildings that have used this, Hammond again avoided.

[delicatemoth]

It does indeed look like the council are using this as an opportunity for social cleansing.

Also, where there's a tragedy there's an opportunity.

[anton pulisov]

YouTube already full of "truthers" wondering why Grenfell tower didn't collapse like the WTC.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

Thanks for the post Nick (I know it's not yours but thanks anyway).

This kind of thing makes me so angry...

[NickSTFU]

Blimey, this is embarrassing.

What I posted is from a bloke with the handle of 'Shambles' on Blue and Amber the main Shrewsbury Town site. The link is at the bottom. I played football with/against him years ago.

I realise I could have done the post better (quote marks for example), so deepest apologies for any confusion.

This is all rather awkward.

sorry again.

[Sam]

Yeah, thanks for that Nick, and hope you're okay.

[Paul S]

That's a really moving post Nick. It sounds like you're really going through it. Thoughts are with you mate.

One of the best posts of this thread I think. Very informative and thank you for sharing.

[hobbes]

That's a really moving post Nick. It sounds like you're really going through it. Thoughts are with you mate.

[Tubby Isaacs]

What a post, Nick.

It's been reported a few times that there's nobody from the council there, nobody in charge etc. That's bad enough even without the rubbish about D-Notices and casualties being suppressed.

[NickSTFU]

I'll just leave this here. Another forgotten voice. The front line of Tory cuts and a bloke doing his best.

This quote is from from a poster on blue and amber the Shrewsbury Town site.

"This is my patch. I could write a book on the last few days. It's been chaotic, desperately sad, baking hot. It's felt like half of the country has either sent a chunck of their property across or turned up or done both. We've been bombarded by Amazon, DHL, Monsoon, M&S, EE, TalkTalk as well as thousands of well wishers etc. We have official rest centres crammed with donations, two town halls rammed and donations flowing out of pop up community centres. The council has literally ground to a halt to processes donations, support with logistics, support housing colleagues, volunteer at rest centres. It has also drawn upon the support of colleagues in Westminster and Hammersmith & Fulham LA.

This part of North Ken and in and around the Town Hall looks and feels like a warzone, residents are devastated and staff are likewise devastated.

There have been failures and are plenty of lessons to be learnt- but contrary to what the press will tell you the council has focused on council specific rest centres. Centres that have Housing officers, LAS, Dr's, nurses, adult and children's social workers, clothing, food, the red cross, police input and mental health practitioners. We have tried directing residents to these centres and using them as hubs. Unfortunately the one downside of such an overwhelming community response is that Mosques, churches, sports halls and all manner of places have popped up as refuge centres and somewhat confused the messaging. The council has either been too slow to respond to these centres and ineffectively coordinated with them, not had the resources (staff) to put in all of these pop up centres, made the strategic decision to try and work through an official hub base or all of the above.

I have been to the Westway (gym with 300 places to sleep that the Queen visited) and have helped coordinate another rest centre on the first day. I can assure you that there have been plentiful of council volunteers present trying to support residents. The Borough Emergency Centre is in operation 24 hours a day trying to manage and coordinate .

Unfortunately we lack two things information about missing people and the permission/support of senior police officials to help us manage the expectation and comms with residents on the ground.

I can fully understand why residents are so ****ed off and I accept the logic that they need to make noise and create momentum before the world loses interest in this story.

I also accept criticism of the chaotic nature of the council's response. I would however say that any local authority would struggle to deal with a 36 hour blaze in the heart of the community that incinerated 120 flats, displaced/killed upto 600 residents as well as having to evacuate hundreds of other residents from neighbouring blocks.

I accept that blame will be apportioned and it will likely fall on elected officials within the LA, senior managers at the TMO and likely impact upon the government, with the buck finishing at the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea.

I've mixed with young eloquent women demanding answers that I can't give about their missing family. I've been told I am lying and part of a government conspiracy by a teenager who has lost 5 members of his family. I've been shouted at by a resident who accused me of plotting to break up the community. I've coordinated with senior managers at acute trusts to discharge patients who's children are intensive care or who's family have died and who's house has burnt down.

I've protected old ladies from outbreaks of violence between residents and police and used my body as a shield to prevent a women having seizures getting crushed as a crowd surged the rest centre. I've carried people to medical attention and like my colleagues tried to support our community. But in this environment this is not enough. Nothing we do will be enough and I get that, I understand, but please know we are doing the best we can to help, to support, to comfort, to house and to give answers and link family members.

And all of this time, despite having a home and a family to go back to I have felt empty, like my colleagues I feel there is more that I should be doing. I look at the evening standard and I have to withhold the tears, I find myself silently crying as I watch newsnight. RBKC, TMO and the community of North ken will never be the same again. No amount of hard work, sorrow or support will make these residents feel any better. They need recognition and respect, they demand answers and they want blood, but most importantly, the one thing we can't provide atm they want information about the 100+ people to charred to identify in Grenfell and dare I presuppose the numerous unofficial residents who were crashing on sofa's or unofficially living with tenants.

Sorry for the ramble"

Read more: http://blueandamber.proboards.com/th...#ixzz4kI0MaDON

[Amor de Cosmos]

There's been some discussion locally about how Grenfell differed from four other towers on the estate. From an ex-resident:

The rest of the estate is the four towers and four low level maisonettes blocks. If you look at those towers, every sixth floor they have a large landing (white in colour). I remember asking Terry the caretaker why they had these white landing things. He said that if a fire broke out in the block residents could go to the landings and wait to be rescued. There's one on the 6th 12th and 18th floors. Each and every flat has a balcony as well. The escape staircase is at the front of the building with glass windows. Grenfell's stairs are totally enclosed so are dark even in daylight let alone with acrid smoke. And there are no balconies whatsoever in Grenfell as we all know.

The four towers mentioned were completed in the late 60s several years prior to Grenfell. I've long believed this was transition period marking the end of a balance (more or less) between production and consumption in post-industrial societies. The UK of the sixties still made most of the stuff it bought, from TVs and cars, to soap and cornflakes. That had begun to change by the early seventies and created systemic problems that have worsened exponentially ever since. Now people in the UK (and elsewhere) buy far more than they produce. Consumption, of course, requires income and if there's no opportunity to make any then — either individually or collectively — you get short shrift. The building of Grenfell marks that point. A few years earlier public projects got similar attention, and financing, to private ones. I know this as my Dad was an architect whose firm worked on both. A few years later and the game had changed, corners were cut, materials scrimped, and costs "trimmed." This disaster is not just a present-day tragedy but, should be, a lesson in modern history.