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Grenfell flats fire

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  • delicatemoth
    replied
    This is rather nicer, though sombre and sad as hell. Mass banner solidarity drops from housing estates

    Leave a comment:


  • Lang Spoon
    replied
    Fucking hell why do people act so cunty for a little attention?

    Ah, good old fraud of course.

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  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7815186.html

    A man has been arrested for falsely claiming he'd lost his wife and child in the disaster.

    Leave a comment:


  • delicatemoth
    replied
    It appears that the press obtained a court order overturning their exclusion. So K&C council cancelled the meeting.

    Leave a comment:


  • delicatemoth
    replied
    My favourite Camden councillor Sian Berry talks about public housing.

    I have to feel some sympathy for Georgia Gould, who I think has been in position as council leader for about three weeks. Admirable timing by predecessor Sarah Hayward.

    Um, do other people know a possibly unhealthy amount about their local councils?

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  • delicatemoth
    replied
    Devastating scale of social housing selloff

    Camden really deserve praise for acting swiftly, I understand it's tough for residents but this may save lives.

    I can't blame people for refusing to leave. They have every right to suspect they'll never be allowed back, given the track record of councils all over London. But the current incarnations of London councils (however foul some of them might be) aren't specifically to blame for the inadequacies of buildings, emergency accom etc. It's a problem that's been building for nearly 40 years.

    I live in Camden council accommodation, which is lovely (recent, purpose-built for vulnerable adults). I'm really lucky to have it and this has prompted tears and survivor guilt-related depression. I desperately hope all these people get the decent treatment.

    But how can anyone trust their council when they bar Grenfell survivors and media from a cabinet meeting and can't manage to rebook emergency hotels for survivors?

    The more events ramify the more I think that this is the biggest, most horrible thing to happen in the UK in my lifetime. And I still remember sobbing as I watched the Hillsborough news.

    Leave a comment:


  • Satchmo Distel
    replied
    The fact that this is happening at the same time as the Hillsborough charges is a reminder of the class nature of public safety and legal justice. Will this still be going through the courts in 2045?

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  • HindleA
    replied
    http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2014/1383.html


    http://ukscblog.com/case-comment-nzo...-2015-uksc-22/

    Leave a comment:


  • Artificial Hipster
    replied
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40438701

    "In November 2014, Sir Martin oversaw a case in which he ruled a London tenant could be rehoused 50 miles away"

    Leave a comment:


  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    Before the victim blaming the residents who raised concerns were thought of as troublemakers.

    The demonisation of the lower classes by successive governments has a lot to answer for in allowing this preventable tragedy to ocur.

    What do we know about the judge leading the inquiry?

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  • Artificial Hipster
    replied
    Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
    Sub-letting could be the victim blaming distraction I fear. Especially letting to undocumented migrants (which I imagine has become more common since the obligation on landlords to check immigration status).
    The victim blaming distraction instead of the acknowledgement that increasingly oppressive anti-immigrant legislation impacts not on numbers but on lives and leads not just to misery but to tragedy.

    Leave a comment:


  • nmfnp1977
    replied
    It's an unfortunate phrase to quote in this context, but does anyone recall the much lauded 'bonfire of the quangos'?

    When Pickles and Shapps gleefully did away with the Audit Commission and Tenant Services Authority they effectively de-regulated the management of social housing.

    I can't say for certain whether the old inspection regime would have picked up on the cladding issue specifically (I'd need to refresh my memory - KLOEs, anyone?) But it provided scrutiny / oversight of landlord activity - so things like not acting on complaints, or an absence of basic housing management processes, might have been highlighted earlier.

    EDIT: I'd include 'poor record of occupancy / household detais' under absence of basic housing management processes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lang Spoon
    replied
    Sub-letting could be the victim blaming distraction I fear. Especially letting to undocumented migrants (which I imagine has become more common since the obligation on landlords to check immigration status).

    Leave a comment:


  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
    That TMO, fuck. Don't they have any obligation to keep an accurate building manifest?
    How many of the 60 plus companies involved have stuck to their obligations?

    I'm sure some of the issues are due to sub letting but most is sheer incompetence.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lang Spoon
    replied
    That TMO, fuck. Don't they have any obligation to keep an accurate building manifest?

    Leave a comment:


  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    The TMO Tenant Management Organisation gave a list of residents to the police, it was inaccurate. No wonder the surviving residents are convinced that many more people than the 80 confirmed dead or missing presumed dead have actually perished in this disaster.

    Leave a comment:


  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    Grenfell Tower death toll may not be known until end of year, say police

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

    This also includes the number of companies being investigated, that's up to 60 and rising.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul S
    replied
    The final toll of the Grenfell Flats fire won't be known this year, according to the police.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40434741

    Problems due to identification, who was where, people moved up the tower to try and get away from the flames and there not being enough remains left to test. I don't really know what to say.

    Leave a comment:


  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    Grenfell residents' groups compile lists of victims and survivors and they say there are a minimum of 120 dead.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

    There's also a video embedded in the article of the interview with David Lammy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lang Spoon
    replied
    Leo's shambles/dublin city council seems to have been very quiet on this also. I'm sure developments here may have had similar suppliers tendering at least. Are any tests ongoing in Ireland? There's a whole IFSC of shit commercial architecture let alone what might have gone up in the residential sector.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lang Spoon
    replied
    Yeah, and usually the council redoes are ten years in style behind the fashion forward private sector treats. So still white render when cheap spec developments were all about barcode windows and cladding, still putting silly triangle hats on blocks when po-mo was reduced to a bunch of wanks fucking around with a few low rise blocks of a Manchester "regen" Pathfinder area. But most of the Glasgow cladding of the last 10 years seems to be grey plastic cladding (there are HA flats overlooking the Green where the Gorbals hits the river I think look great, but how safe is the new skin really?)

    How much of Brum, Manchester, Glasgow, Leeds new/refurb office blocks of the last 15 years or so might also be at risk? They do apply things stringently in the City of London, strange they don't shit and cut costs in their own backyard, but Boris's new Battersea of money laundering bullshit? Docklands? Remember the Dubai fire. Costs are cut just as horribly in the private sector, especially if a city is desperate for any development, planning officers' objections may be on deaf ears.
    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 27-06-2017, 21:07.

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  • Toby Gymshorts
    replied
    Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
    Cheap as chips upkeep.
    With an expensive as fuck aesthetic. Who cares if it's unsafe, look at the quality.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lang Spoon
    replied
    Premier Inn have already said they are worried and a number of their buildings are probably unsafe.

    So what was the fascination with cladding, aesthetics or insulation?


    Both, insulates on the cheap, the new cladding or render makes cooncil buildings or old office blocks look less ghastly. Concrete was vile don't you know. So beautiful ugly things like the Tricorn, or the Gateshead car park were torn down. And if the building was to be saved, give it a new jaicket. To be fair, exposed concrete does look like shit in the general British climate if it isn't well-maintained. Which is probably the third reason for cladding. Wipe clean a 24 storey high rise like it was a giant upended McDonald's table. Cheap as chips upkeep.
    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 27-06-2017, 20:31.

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  • SouthdownRebel
    replied
    That was the point I was driving at earlier Antep, it's starting to feel like there's very little that is up to the required standard. There's a much broader scandal to be unearthed besides the cladding. I strongly suspect the answers to why will be rooted in costs - the inevitable result of a system that is founded on the principle of achieving more from less at every stage. Eventually something has to give, and Grenfell was that something.

    Leave a comment:


  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    The four buildings in Camden that have been evacuated need 1000 fire doors fitting, my basic maths gives that as 10 per floor. This is going way beyond cladding.

    Every retired fire officer I've seen interviewed is damning of the whole system of fire checks.

    Leave a comment:

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