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    Well, yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. That's more than enough reason to get him off the case. Go for that specifically, rather than just complaining that he's an out-of-touch posho (which of course he is).

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      Three hospitals have now said that they have the same cladding.

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        And it begins. Thanks for PFI, Tony!

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          As a union rep on my work's Joint Consultative Cttee, I was pretty shocked yesterday as a top boss read through their response to the Grenfell fire in an "I can't be bothered with all this red tape" voice. He was then bombarded with examples of blocked fire exits, missing signs, faulty alarms, no fire drills for years etc that soon changed his expression and tone.

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            Originally posted by Felicity, I guess so View Post
            As a union rep on my work's Joint Consultative Cttee, I was pretty shocked yesterday as a top boss read through their response to the Grenfell fire in an "I can't be bothered with all this red tape" voice. He was then bombarded with examples of blocked fire exits, missing signs, faulty alarms, no fire drills for years etc that soon changed his expression and tone.
            He'd have been right at home on the Government's Cut Red Tape committee.

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              Apparently the representatives of the judge have been in the area telling residents they've got eight days to submit written submissions to the inquiry.

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                Joe Delaney was on Channel 4 News again tonight, he really does come across well in putting forward the needs of the residents.

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                  Grenfell: fire-proof cladding specified by architects used only on ground floor

                  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

                  No surprise this.

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                    Would recommend following/reading tweets by Celeste Thomas @mamapie for actual facts to combat the spewing of lies.

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                      Joe Delaney was on the Today Programme on Radio 4 this morning, he was again logical and rational when speaking. From 1.22.20 on the link below.

                      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08wmk8k
                      Last edited by Antepli Ejderha; 07-07-2017, 10:44.

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                        It took 24 minutes from the first call out to dispatch a 30m aerial platform to the fire. They also had to call in a 60m aerial platform from Surrey. London Fire Brigade does not own a 60m aerial platform, despite the fact that London has the top ten tallest buildings in the UK, and 44 of the top 50. Also Matt Wrack was saying on the BBC News that there are now only two counsellors for the whole of the London Fire Brigade to deal with Post-traumatic stress, cut from 14 under the previous Mayor Boris Johnson. The British press needs to confront this fucker over the cuts made during his tenure.

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                          Emma Dent Coad, give it up, please.

                          https://twitter.com/daily_politics/s...00278726311936

                          Martin Moore-Bick can't chair the inquiry because residents of Grenfell fear they'll be socially cleansed, apparently. I thought the problem was the remit was too narrow, and he was just going to look at the causes and spread of the fire?

                          And she knows (never having met him) that he "doesn't understand human beings".

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                            Originally posted by Bizarre Lw Triangle View Post
                            Isn't the issue with this judge his past rulings in favour of local councils socially cleansing working class tenants?

                            Specifically his decision that tenants who turn down houses 50 miles from their support network can be treated as "intentionally homeless"?
                            "Rulings"? It was one ruling, and he gave leave to appeal, which he didn't have to do if he just wanted working class tenants socially cleansed.

                            How many of his other judgements are you familiar with? Lawyers seem to think he's OK.

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                              Originally posted by Bizarre Lw Triangle View Post
                              Not like judges have a history of supporting the establishment, is it? Or that there's a history of judicial cover-ups/whitewashes of state abuses and violence.

                              This technocratic reverence with which "serious" people talk about the judiciary is a cancer. The judiciary is a bunch of old, publicly-schooled, white men making decisions that back the status quo. Sure, they're independent of the government but that doesn't mean they're on the side of residents of council estates.
                              "Public-schooled".

                              He was educated at The Skinners' School, Tunbridge Wells,
                              I mean, Christ, yeah, judges. It's just old boy network establismentism that makes people think they're the right people to chair enquiries. I mean nobody would think presiding over complicated legal cases all your life made you well-qualified to preside over complicated public inquiries, eh?

                              Law is a bit "technocratic", I should think. I've no idea why that's an insult for the judiciary. As it happens, I think the general public do trust judges. They were the most trusted profession after doctors and teachers in the survey I just looked at, beating scientists- which is pretty impressive considering all the shit they get from the media about being out of touch softy old fools. As doctors and teachers never do anything like presiding over an inquiry, let's go for a judge.
                              Last edited by Tubby Isaacs; 09-07-2017, 15:34.

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                                Grenfell Tower investigation starting point is 80 deaths by manslaughter, police say

                                https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

                                Some of the details in here are horrific.

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                                  Christ. Just the thought of 999 calls from trapped residents is chilling. How could you cope if you were on the other end?

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                                    MPs will debate the Grenfell Tower disaster today four weeks after the tragedy. With parliamentary immunity could this be a chance for something important to come out?

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                                      Originally posted by Levin View Post
                                      Christ. Just the thought of 999 calls from trapped residents is chilling. How could you cope if you were on the other end?
                                      Police are quoted as saying how traumatising the calls are, and how they are all fired up to seek justice etc.

                                      Sorry, I'm not going to hunt out articles just now, but I got angry on FB last night at so many bar-stool pathologists who "can easily tell" that there were hundreds of people in there, but "they" are covering it up and not telling us the "body count".

                                      Now, people mistrust the police, whereas in the 80s (when there were so many miscarriages of justice) and even after Hillsborough, they were widely believed. Maybe people are jumping on this bandwagon as they were caught on the wrong side of history before.

                                      It reminds me of something AJP Taylor wrote, how in WWI there were stories of German atrocities that were entirely fictional; but during WWII rumours of death camps were dismissed as fanciful.

                                      Firefighters managed to get dozens if not hundreds of people to safety, it's what they do. They will be forever haunted by those they couldn't save.

                                      People boorishly exclaiming "only 89 dead?? It was easily in the hundreds! Tell us the truth!" are really not helping anyone, nor showing respect to victims, relatives and those working on that terrible front line.
                                      Last edited by MsD; 12-07-2017, 11:14.

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                                        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40632705

                                        Dozens of cases of electrical surges reported before the fatal fire

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                                          Grenfell fire: deputy council leader says he was unaware of residents' concerns

                                          https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

                                          I saw him on TV this morning and he appeared to be completely out of touch and responded in cliches.

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                                            Edit. Double post

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                                              David Lammy urges Grenfell inquiry chair to 'uncover the truth'

                                              https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

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                                                Met says Grenfell Tower council 'may have committed corporate manslaughter'

                                                https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

                                                Is this as important as it sounds?

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                                                  I would say so.

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                                                    Grenfell fire inquiry may have to suspend work if CPS brings charges

                                                    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

                                                    FFS. This is going to go down well.

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