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    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post

    I had a somewhat similar reaction, but there had been significant noises from European sources that a five year time limited backstop would have been acceptable to at least some member states, and this is effectively a year longer. As to the cooling off period, I think the terminology is off (as is often the case with Eurojargon), the way that I read it it is essentially a transition period during which all of the necessary legal and physical infrastructure occasioned by the Stormont decision could be put into place. Finally, I would expect that the EU27 believe that the chances of Stormont functioning at the relevant time to be significantly less than 100 percent, while at the same time believing that the economic case for keeping the arrangement in place is likely to be easier to be made in Stormont than Westminster.

    As to the impact on the Anglo Irish Agreement, this is one aspect of the plan as to which the other 26 member states will actually defer to the Republic, as it doesn't really implicate all of the larger EU concerns over a member state's exit.
    Ursus, the devil is in the detail. The Vote after four years is likely to be substantially in favour, and after that there is an effective nationalist veto on having another vote. I would have assumed that cooling down period means waiting two years and running the vote again. The DUP get their consent. It's just not the consent that they were hoping for. They were never going to be given the power of veto over the implementation of the Good Friday agreement.

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      Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post

      I'm surprised the EU even agreed to this but I suppose it was this or No Deal.

      The "cooling off" period seems vague and I would have thought would be highly unstable. It also undermines the Anglo-Irish Agreement.
      I'm going with "That plan to scupper the talks and blame us? Well how about we agree something that will never get through Parliament and see how that works out for you."

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        DUP has officially said 'no' so I think that's curtains for a vote on Saturday, as the ERG is very unlikely to go against the DUP's wishes and the EU have surely conceded all they could.

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          Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
          The shinners and the anti Reasonable Man Martin wing of Fianna Fáil may well make domestic hay with this apparent capitulation by Varadkar.
          Capitulation?

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            https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1184763635731750912?s=19

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              https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1184766439682695170?s=20

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                So Johnson announces as a done deal something which the DUP hasn't signed up to and which Parliament hasn't ratified.


                meanwhile the Lib Dems are complaining that the two largest oposition parties are working tiigether

                https://twitter.com/GeorgiGotev/status/1184766982387838980?s=20

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                  https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1184767874654711808?s=20

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                    I predict the fucking Labour quislings get this over the line.

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                      Quitlings, but yeah.

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                        https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1184772590373670912?s=20

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                          https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1184773747389227008?s=20

                          Why are the EU participating in this farce?

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                            Because they're fucking sick of us at this point.

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                              But they've only ever talked to the Conservative Party.

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                                The text of the agreement:

                                https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...rn_ireland.pdf

                                It should be stressed, as Barnier has just done, that this is just a draft and has to go through the EU Parliament before the 27 ministers sign off on it
                                Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 17-10-2019, 10:32.

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                                  [URL]https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1184773686047449089?s=21[/URL]

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                                    "Take back control" is obviously a lie when you read what the agreement says about VAT, for example

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                                      Hmm. Even if the Lib Dems and SNP were onboard, Labour would still have needed 20 of 41 independents to come with them, of whom 21 were Tories. I mean, it would have been interesting but the plan never had the numbers because the Tories who dislike Brexit really do hate Corbyn more. Those have been the fundamentals of the problem since 2017, that non-Brexit forces would not control the agenda until enough Tories were prepared to collapse the government (as many people on this very thread have pointed out in the last 2 years) so to blame _this_ on Swinson is tribalist buffoonery.

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                                        If Swinson had said she would have backed Corbyn it would have put the pressure on them. Her tribalist buffoonery ensured there was none.

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                                          Am I reading this right, this 'right to vote on the arrangement every four years' given to Stormont doesn't require a majority from "both communities"? That looks to be storing up a whole world of problems if so.

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                                            " Deal latest - Experts say this doesn’t give the guarantees on a softer brexit as Theresa May’s deal. In May’s deal there were legally binding commitments on level playing field. This kicks that can down the road, and could mean a harder or a softer brexit dependent on PM."

                                            So the deal is dependent on entrusting the country to the word of Boris - " "I plan to leave my wife" "Yes of course I've checked my sources" " She was giving me technology Lessons" "iJohnson

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                                              I think the DUP will continue to reject this because of VAT and because they can't be sure Stormont will be sitting in four years' time, so it's better for them to keep their power base in Westminster.

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                                                Labour + Lib Dems + SNP + PC Green is more than Tory + DUP isn't it?

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                                                  For all the gazillions of words spent on political machinations throughout the ages, there really is only a short list of moves in the playbook.

                                                  "Declare victory and leave" is a well-trodden path. And "Always say it's new". And everyone knew that was going to be the play, even before Johnson got the job. The rest is bluster and noise.

                                                  I guess that old Stephen Fry clip will be getting a good workout ("A good deal for Britain!").

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                                                    Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
                                                    Am I reading this right, this 'right to vote on the arrangement every four years' given to Stormont doesn't require a majority from "both communities"? That looks to be storing up a whole world of problems if so.
                                                    Correct. I think the Taoiseach will suffer a lot of damage for that concession, as Spoony noted upthread.

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