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    On a lighter note, pissed meself at Jolyon QC's suggestion for a month-long politics-fest at Maidenhead United's ground, conveniently overlooking (as Trevor Bastard points out on the Twitters) that Alan Devonshire's side were at the climax of a promotion-winning National League South campaign at the time.

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      Originally posted by Wouter D View Post

      Come again?
      Gah that second scotland should be in Northern Ireland.

      I don't know what "people" are doing. I think the article is a very good piece of ethnographic reporting about a curiously English phenomenon.

      that article doesn't limit the discussion to english people. It just another article that uses the term british when it means english. There are really enthusiastic remainers in Scotland They are just planning to rejoin the EU By leaving the UK.

      They have no analysis of power. Instead of marching with twee posters about cups of tea they should have been occupying the Daily Telegraph or JCB headquarters. They should have picteted the Institute of Economic Affairs. Arranged boycotts of Wetherspoons. They should have been building links with the Trade Unions and (like you) they shouldn't have wasted so much time attacking Jeremy Corbyn, and thus strengthening their opponent.

      Well if only the party that was supposed to represent them that was is supposed to be good at these things, wasn't trying to wittingly or witlessly triangulate their way to no-deal. Also those people aren't pro-remain because they have a problem with Jeremy corbyn, they have a problem with Jeremy Corbyn because he isn't pro-remain.

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        Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
        On a lighter note, pissed meself at Jolyon QC's suggestion for a month-long politics-fest at Maidenhead United's ground, conveniently overlooking (as Trevor Bastard points out on the Twitters) that Alan Devonshire's side were at the climax of a promotion-winning National League South campaign at the time.
        We had a summer day out for the South of England Norn Iron Supporters Club at Maidenhead United a few years ago. Visiting Worcester City stalwart Mark Clyde was guest of honor

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          If I'd criticise the article for anything, is that it failed to acknowledge the organised Left element to Remain - the Another Europe is Possible campaign - which does include some of the cultural and class characteristic of the FBPE crowd, but has a different political and organisational analysis.

          And I'm afraid the FBPE crew's problem with Jeremy Corbyn isn't confined to him being "pro-leave" (let's leave the flaws in that contention to one side for one, blessed and sacred, moment). There's other stuff bundled in there. Which is one of the reasons for the frosty relationship between the pro-Remain Left and FBPE centrists.

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            I was too lazy to make it all the way through the article, and I might be being unfair, but the part I read suggested that it has similar DNA from other articles I've read that take a very both-sidesy, uber-sensible approach. "Remainers are just as idiotic and extreme as Brexiters: here are lots of Remainers who're very upset and have said silly things on Twitter and are a bit detached from reality." With the unstated implication that they're just the opposite side of the coin as people who're upset at hearing foreign languages spoken in their local shops. The authors of these articles also seem to be saying "Look at these people who used to claim to be Sensible. But they're not really sensible enough, not able to detach themselves from everything in politics. If only they were sensible enough to not care about this, either, like me, we'd be more dispassionate and rational and be able to see both sides and come to a more neutral conclusion."

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              Why not read the article first? I particular advise those based in Ireland or California to read an article about a particular manifestation of English remainer policies which sees connection with any other political activity.

              thats why it’s different from Scotland where there is an independence movement.

              its not as has been repeatedly pointed out talking about all Remain politics but those of us who have been on marches for Remain or campaigned for Remain have commented on the twee middle class perspective which the London Olympics as the high point of 21st Century Culture and had neither an analysis or a strategy to stop Brexit.

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                Actually there is a bit at the end that's a little more hopeful, talking about how this new foray into activism has been educational for some of them, as all political activism is in some way or another (if not always optimism-generating)

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                  Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                  Why not read the article first? I particular advise those based in Ireland or California to read an article about a particular manifestation of English remainer policies which sees connection with any other political activity.
                  I didn't feel a need to finish reading it. I have now, at your suggestion. I was right. I recognise these people. My Facebook feed is full of them, many of them very close friends (which is not all that surprising given my very middle class Oxford and London background). Their posts annoy me enough as it is. I didn't need to read more about them.

                  It also doesn't refute my point that it's part of the bunch of articles with the same both-sidesy DNA. With the implication that The Sensibles With Their Obsession with Remain and Belief in Experts are not too dissimilar to the Brexiters with their Racism and Belief in Gut Instinct.

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                    You feel you didn’t need to read about them because you know these people already. Most people don’t.

                    However nice enough as they be as individuals your post and the article shows why the Remain campaign has irritated so many l and why the persistent focus on Corbyn alienates the people they need to be working with.

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                      This is a shorter, better, more succinct comment piece from the same source yesterday.

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                        That was a good piece.

                        Johnson has now used the word "Collaborators" about those working with Brussels to stop "no deal"

                        I think we know how this is going to play out.

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                          With the corpses of him and Cummings hanging upside down from the roof of a petrol station?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                            That was a good piece.

                            Johnson has now used the word "Collaborators" about those working with Brussels to stop "no deal"

                            I think we know how this is going to play out.
                            Yeah. I saw that. They're really going full on in their war and treason metaphors. I thought the "We survived the blitz" nonsense was just nonsense from idiots, but they've taken it and run with it, now. They know life's going to be shitter in Britain after their No Deal, and they want to find people to blame, and they want their public to be thinking about proudly surviving, rather than realising that this is a self-inflicted war on themselves.

                            The stuff coming from the Tories is getting more and more terrifying by the day.

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                              And it will work.

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                                Folk didn't see The Troubles coming to Nordieland even in the mid 60s. I fear what'll happen even in quiescent Scotland when Westminster refuses any Section 30 order to hold a Scots Indyref2 in post nondeal hellscape. Especially as a good amount of Unionists are as irrational UKania Right or Wrong as any Wings over Scotland Nat for the reverse. And a lot of Scots are in the fucking Forces.

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                                  One gets the sense that Cummings would have been at home in any number of the worst totalitarian propaganda ministries of all time.

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                                    Originally posted by Eggchaser View Post
                                    And it will work.
                                    In England. Even Wales seems to be copping on.

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                                      Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
                                      This is a shorter, better, more succinct comment piece from the same source yesterday.
                                      It's certainly true that to prevent No Deal, the Remain parties' only hope is to work with Corbyn and Labour.

                                      It is also utterly depressing that the height of ambition seems to be preventing No Deal. We're not even, any more, talking about stopping a Hard Brexit...

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                                        Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post

                                        It's certainly true that to prevent No Deal, the Remain parties' only hope is to work with Corbyn and Labour.

                                        It is also utterly depressing that the height of ambition seems to be preventing No Deal. We're not even, any more, talking about stopping a Hard Brexit...
                                        With McCluskey and Poundshop Kinnock sticking the knife in Corbyn’s back today, who can blame the lack of ambition?

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                                          For which Cameron ( who left the ChristianDemocrat grouping to ally with the the Polish Law and Justice Party and the Alternative für Deutschland) and Theresa “ no deal is better than a bad deal” May are entirely responsible.

                                          And maybe the arch remainers who found the Labour Party position so intolerable that they helped ensure the polarisation which has weakened Labour and the potential anti-fascist alliance ( because Johnson and Cummings are full on fash now let’s face it) and strengthened the Far right.

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                                            In the meantime it looks like NHS staff will be turned into immigration officers...

                                            https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...t-nhs-18932943

                                            My wife is not entirely convinced this will work...

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                                              This happens with non EU citizens anyway, no?

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                                                Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                                This happens with non EU citizens anyway, no?
                                                Yep. Before Mrs AE became a UK citizen she had to prove she was entitled to healthcare by taking her passport and ukba card. This only happened post 2015.

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                                                  Originally posted by Moonlight shadow View Post
                                                  In the meantime it looks like NHS staff will be turned into immigration officers...

                                                  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...t-nhs-18932943

                                                  My wife is not entirely convinced this will work...
                                                  It's not meant to "work" in the sense of being a functioning piece of bureuacracy

                                                  It's meant to terrify people and fuck up the NHS yet further. and it's going to work all too well.

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                                                    Dystopia. The worst country in Western Europe (on purpose since 2010) just keeps on giving.

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