Lads, that's an article about remainers, that doesn't mention a single person from two whole fucking countries that voted to remain. or a UK resident from another EU country. That should be the one of the first things you notice.
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- Mar 2008
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Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View PostNo, lets make this very clear here. I don't start off by saying anything of the sort. I start off by saying that this is an article about how a lot of middle class english people are twats. That is a description of the article, not my opinion. My opinion is that we all already knew this, and that this is true of all societies. Also this article is almost entirely about middle class english people aside from one deranged person from port talbot, and a brief nine word quote from an american living in cardiff, the only mention of the rest of the UK is an oblique reference to the Scottish referendum. I don't think a single person mentioned in the entire article is scottish or irish. (except for fintan o'toole) this is an article about middle class english people, written for middle class english people.
this is just a pointless navel-gazing article.
Fair enough. I thought it was a decent chronology of events and a fair-minded exploration of positions, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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- Mar 2008
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- Revelling In The Hole
- England, Chelsea and Tooting and Mitcham. And Surrey CCC. And Wimbledon Dons Speedway (RIP)
- Nairn's Cheese Oatcake
Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View PostLads, that's an article about remainers, that doesn't mention a single person from two whole fucking countries that voted to remain. or a UK resident from another EU country. That should be the one of the first things you notice.
I think that a fairly swift Google search will provide you with the odd ten thousand or so articles that do.
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Scotto myopia (barring reverently publishing The Thunderer Broon's latest sermons against The Virus of Nationalism/the panacea of (quasi) Federalism) is how the Guardian rolls.
it also doesn't fit the narrative.Last edited by Lang Spoon; 13-08-2019, 18:43.
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- Mar 2008
- 19048
- Revelling In The Hole
- England, Chelsea and Tooting and Mitcham. And Surrey CCC. And Wimbledon Dons Speedway (RIP)
- Nairn's Cheese Oatcake
Well, it's a thread about Brexit but the Tweet was introduced as a new contribution when in fact it appeared in an article we were in the process of discussing, and therefore not new, unless we're giving value to Trevor Bastard's ancillary comment.
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- Mar 2008
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- Revelling In The Hole
- England, Chelsea and Tooting and Mitcham. And Surrey CCC. And Wimbledon Dons Speedway (RIP)
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Originally posted by Lang Spoon View PostAye, it's not like there are millions of English folk with Irish ancestry or anything.
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Also, when discussing Brexit, surely the fact there is absolutely no guarantee at all that Remain would win a second referendum is a salient topic. this article helps analyse that, you’ve got a bunch of generally well off, self satisfied people who seem to regard Brexit as a part of the culture wars. Which is the problem really: the country has made shockingly little progression on understanding what the EU does, what the British state does, etc. Yes, of course Leavers are generally even more ignorant about the EU, but they won.
You’ve been living in Nottinghamshire for years and can’t rebut the sovereignty argument? What have you been DOING with your time?
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Banned
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- A long way from Utopia.
- India, Ireland & numerous, numerous ABscenarios...
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Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View PostI'm particularly doubtful about "warm, rosy-cheeked" Finbarr O'Halloran.
My problem with that piece is that it suggests that remainers are slightly weird people, mostly from middle class english urban bubbles, as opposed to half the fucking population, and a majority in scotland and Northern ireland. Also, you know, you can arrive at these positions not because you're part of some quaint english tribe. You can get there by knowing the first fucking thing about how the EU works.
It's about an English phenomenon.
Well why do they primarily talk about britain and talk about a 52:48 result. It was 53.4: 46.6 in england. In the rest of the UK there were four remain votes for every three leave ones. There were five remain votes for every three leave votes in scotland. There were five remain votes for every four leave votes in scotland. Wales was slightly leave, but less than England. You can find plenty of Scottish people who voted for remain on twitter. They're also focused on the imminent disaster, but they're less into twee memes though, and more into direct personal abuse, and angry invective.
Also I want to make it abundantly clear that I don't think that the England is particularly out of line with the European norm when it comes to the proportion of people who engage in twattish behaviour. My problem is that this article focuses almost exclusively on a subset of English people who are often carrying on in a particularly twattish way. (I am not a fan of hashtag based political movements)
BTW Does Wales get the same newspapers as England, or is there a special Welsh version of the Sun, and Mail like in ireland or scotland?Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 14-08-2019, 00:01.
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Wales doesn't have what passes for Scottish print media, no. Just local papers, no Herald/Scotsman/Daily Record equivalent, let alone separate editions of the English papers.
though the days when the Scotsman and Herald especially were respected broadsheets with their own Foreign Correspondents dotted hither and thither seem v far off now.Last edited by Lang Spoon; 14-08-2019, 00:30.
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Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
You can google most of these people. He's from bristol. he's lived there for over 40 years at least. It's in the piece. All of the politicians mentioned are english (Except for a few foreign leaders) All of the activists are coming from a specified parts of england, most of them have names that would get you killed outside of rarefied social environments. Plaid Cymru get a brief passing mention, the SNP not at all.
My problem with that piece is that it suggests that remainers are slightly weird people, mostly from middle class english urban bubbles, as opposed to half the fucking population, and a majority in scotland and Northern ireland. Also, you know, you can arrive at these positions not because you're part of some quaint english tribe. You can get there by knowing the first fucking thing about how the EU works.
It's about an English phenomenon.
Well why do they primarily talk about britain and talk about a 52:48 result. It was 53.4: 46.6 in england. In the rest of the UK there were four remain votes for every three leave ones. There were five remain votes for every three leave votes in scotland. There were five remain votes for every four leave votes in scotland. Wales was slightly leave, but less than England. You can find plenty of Scottish people who voted for remain on twitter. They're also focused on the imminent disaster, but they're less into twee memes though, and more into direct personal abuse, and angry invective.
Also I want to make it abundantly clear that I don't think that the England is particularly out of line with the European norm when it comes to the proportion of people who engage in twattish behaviour. My problem is that this article focuses almost exclusively on a subset of English people who are often carrying on in a particularly twattish way. (I am not a fan of hashtag based political movements)
BTW Does Wales get the same newspapers as England, or is there a special Welsh version of the Sun, and Mail like in ireland or scotland?
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TAB's complaint seems essentially to be "This is an article about cricket. Why isn't it an article about football?" I thought it was a bit too broad-brush, and veered too awkwardly between opinion and reportage, but it was about a phenomenon that is, if anything, under-reported and needs to be talked about: the inner workings and failings of a significant and vocal section of the Remain campaign. TAB may wish they weren't a significant and vocal part of the remain campaign, but the fact is they are, and the fact is this contributes to why Remain has been such an unsuccessful political movement so far, so lacking in self-awareness and ability to reach out. All the things in fact - dogmatism, purism, intolerance of nuanced opinion - that the left is so often accused of.
Remain has so much logic and morality on its side, yet it's still failing. That's worth examining.
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- Mar 2008
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Agree broadly with that E10.
I'm ready to meet Nef half-way and have dissed drinking at the Spoons, reading the Telegraph etc. until further notice. Picketing a pointyhead think-tank or bricking Bamford's is obviously different- it needs people to be willing to risk kettling, arrest or worse. Remain doesn't (yet) have an equiv to the Hong Kong students or New Lodge bonfire builders*
* eagle eyed viewers seeing this on the national news last week may have spotted my old primary school aka the Hillman Street UDA HQ at right of picture. Or at least they would have had it not been demolished in the 90s
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- Mar 2008
- 19048
- Revelling In The Hole
- England, Chelsea and Tooting and Mitcham. And Surrey CCC. And Wimbledon Dons Speedway (RIP)
- Nairn's Cheese Oatcake
Very well put, E10.
TAB keeps on critiiquing the piece as some sort of comprehensive and overarching analysis of Remain and then finding it wanting, whereas it's merely a look at one part of the opposition to Brexit.
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