The Brexit Thread

[multipleman78]

I know it shouldn't amaze me but it does, why are right wing folk the ones who think the climate issue is fake?

It's almost guaranteed that if someone wants no deal then they don't believe in the climate crisis, America doesn't have a gun issue and abortions should be illegal.

Is this predictability down to, in most cases, the Internet and the way people stick to their own side and never hear an opposing view unless they think it is being destroyed on a chat show or news programme?

[ursus arctos]

In my experience, it is usually a combination of

- an absolute refusal to modify any of their own behaviour
- a knee jerk rejection of "expert" opinion in favour of "common sense" (e.g. it was cold last winter)
- massive exposure to, and acceptance of, propaganda funded by fossil fuel companies
- automatic rejection of policy positions advocated by "enemies" (remainers, diversity advocates, anti-inequality campaigners, etc).

[Flynnie]

In my experience, it is usually a combination of

- an absolute refusal to modify any of their own behaviour
- a knee jerk rejection of "expert" opinion in favour of "common sense" (e.g. it was cold last winter)
- massive exposure to, and acceptance of, propaganda funded by fossil fuel companies
- automatic rejection of policy positions advocated by "enemies" (remainers, diversity advocates, anti-inequality campaigners, etc).

Don't forget nostalgia for days of yore. There's a reason most of these issues are the province of the Boomer and older.

[Eggchaser]

Also, anything green is generally associated with tax and regulations, hence the term watermelon.

The fact that the green economy can make shitloads of jobs, money and all the knock on effects, whilst the market is actively beating the shit out of the likes of coal (in the West, at least) seems to pass them by. They look at a pie worth several trillion dollars which has a good PR position, especially compared to fossil fuels and say, "Not for me, thanks!"

[Moonlight Shadow]

They are relics, slowly passing away into history...

[DCI Harry Batt]

They are running the world, as it goes.

[Sean of the Shed]

They are ruining the world, as it goes.

Fixed

[Snake Plissken]

There was a couple of revealing bits in there which I haven't figured out were intentional or not.

[Nocturnal Submission]

I enjoyed that - thanks for linking, Reg.

What caught your eye, Snake?

[Snake Plissken]

Stuff like

Before the referendum, many of the people who have become remainists considered themselves immune to the passions of politics. They tended to hover around the centre ground and didn’t strongly identify with any party. They were used to being on the inside, to being listened to.

and

And so these people, who once dismissed radicals as unreasonable, have themselves become radicalised. They used to pride themselves on their moderation; now, spurred on by rage, they divide the world into enemies and allies. What they are doing is loud, obsessive, tribal, confrontational – politics, in other words.

It reinforces my idea that they were comfortable in not noticing or caring about the reasons many voted for Brexit, the disconnection, inequality, hammering of austerity, crumbling of public services right up until the point at which it affected them.

Edit: It is also is why they can't understand why Corbyn happened - and attack him as much, if not more than Farage. Even to the point of equating the two.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

That article sums up literally everything that is wrong with british politics. Forget about external reality, or objective facts, and lets focus on the fucking soap opera.

[ursus arctos]

More panto than soap opera, I'd say.

It is a profoundly strange piece.

[Nocturnal Submission]

That article sums up literally everything that is wrong with british politics. Forget about external reality, or objective facts, and lets focus on the fucking soap opera.

It's not the Wikipedia entry for Brexit, TAB. It's just looking at the narrow issue of the par-radicalisation of the Remainers.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

It's a david mcWilliams article written by an english person for an english audience. It needs work on the eye catching stories. Maybe a few catchy names for personifications so people can get a better hook on it. if you're going to ultimately be that glib and shallow, you may as well give it the full liberace. Put on a show. Ride in a chariot pullled by a zebra.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Haha!

I'm not really sure what to say to that.

I read a newspaper article about Brexit Remainers: individuals, attitudes, organisations. A middle-brow overview.

What did you read on the label that has left you so dreadfully disappointed and upset with what you found in the can?

[johnr]

I thought that it was worth it just for the AC Grayling bike image - we have to have some fun in these dark days. In a different article - as somebody pointed out on Twitter - there could have been some good analysis of how Leave and Remain have fed off and radicalised each other, with the latter's ultras being one of the factors that's led us to being close to no deal. (No need to throw the 'only 3 options' at me here TAB, we've both been down that route before.)

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

You don't need a 10,000 word article to make the point that a lot of middle class english people are twats. Firstly that's not news, and secondly That's true of everywhere. of course elements of the remain side resemble parts of the leave side. the Leave side operated largely on the basis that they were fighting back against an undermocratic coup, then proceeded to use this imaginary coup to stage a very real coup. The coup that remainers are responding to is very real. He should write about that. We have seen the far right pull this trick of accusing other people of exactly what they plan to do, far too often over the last little while for this to have escaped the authors notice.

then there is this.
This is the crux of the leftwing critique of remainism: the charge that remainists are fixated with Brexit at the expense of everything else – and that rather than seeking to transform the country for the better, they just want to turn back the clock to the time before the referendum when they didn’t have to think about politics because it didn’t impinge upon their privileged bubble. Remainists see it differently. Unless Brexit is stopped and economic calamity averted, they argue, Britain won’t have the money to pay for policies like ending austerity.

You see, this is the last point where you can save this article from this fucking "even-handed" quasi-anthropological bollocks by point out that actually these people are 100% fucking correct. everything you know and love is at risk of being drowned in an Economic Tsunami of shit. But instead of dealing with that issue, lets write about how some english people are twats. People who make that criticism of some remainers may feel smug and self righteous as they do it, but they should consider the role that this attitude has played in preventing there being any effective opposition to brexit, and helped ensure no-deal.

[Nocturnal Submission]

You don't need a 10,000 word article to make the point that a lot of middle class english people are twats. Firstly that's not news, and secondly That's true of everywhere. of course elements of the remain side resemble parts of the leave side. the Leave side operated largely on the basis that they were fighting back against an undermocratic coup, then proceeded to use this imaginary coup to stage a very real coup. The coup that remainers are responding to is very real. He should write about that. We have seen the far right pull this trick of accusing other people of exactly what they plan to do, far too often over the last little while for this to have escaped the authors notice.

then there is this.
This is the crux of the leftwing critique of remainism: the charge that remainists are fixated with Brexit at the expense of everything else – and that rather than seeking to transform the country for the better, they just want to turn back the clock to the time before the referendum when they didn’t have to think about politics because it didn’t impinge upon their privileged bubble. Remainists see it differently. Unless Brexit is stopped and economic calamity averted, they argue, Britain won’t have the money to pay for policies like ending austerity.

You see, this is the last point where you can save this article from this fucking "even-handed" quasi-anthropological bollocks by point out that actually these people are 100% fucking correct. everything you know and love is at risk of being drowned in an Economic Tsunami of shit. But instead of dealing with that issue, lets write about how some english people are twats. People who make that criticism of some remainers may feel smug and self righteous as they do it, but they should consider the role that this attitude has played in preventing there being any effective opposition to brexit, and helped ensure no-deal.

OK, I'll be honest and say that I'm still not quite sure what's got your goat, but you start off by saying that a lot of middle class English people are twats (presumably the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish bourgeoisie are sound) but then you end by saying that people who make that comment are smug and self-righteous.

Did you really want to say that?

[Moonlight Shadow]

I caught sight of an article about English nationalism. It was full of yet again that 'The English feel abandonned with no say' vibe...Then he went on how 'they' do not really feel part of either Union, etc

At what point will the English deal with facts rather their feelings? England is the major nation of the UK itself a major member until the referendum of the EU. England is not a bit-part player yet there is this constant 'feeling' of being the little guys left out in the cold.

What a weirdly insecure people they are those poor English, it's almost as if they have relentlessly been browbeaten into thinking this by powerful media with vested interests...

[ursus arctos]

[URL="https://twitter.com/grannymugger/status/1161173674503917569?s=21"]https://twitter.com/grannymugger/status/1161173674503917569[/URL]

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

No, lets make this very clear here. I don't start off by saying anything of the sort. I start off by saying that this is an article about how a lot of middle class english people are twats. That is a description of the article, not my opinion. My opinion is that we all already knew this, and that this is true of all societies. Also this article is almost entirely about middle class english people aside from one deranged person from port talbot, and a brief nine word quote from an american living in cardiff, the only mention of the rest of the UK is an oblique reference to the Scottish referendum. I don't think a single person mentioned in the entire article is scottish or irish. (except for fintan o'toole) this is an article about middle class english people, written for middle class english people.

this is just a pointless navel-gazing article.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

[URL="https://twitter.com/grannymugger/status/1161173674503917569?s=21"]https://twitter.com/grannymugger/status/1161173674503917569[/URL]

This sounds like something out of spinal tap for politicians.

[Nefertiti2]

How dare English people write about English people for English audiences ! Would never happen in Ireland.

Its a well observed article about a particular English phenomenon in response to Brexit.

cant see why Berbaslug objects to it , unless he’s upset how much common ground he shares with Andrew Adonis and Jolyon Maugham.

[Nocturnal Submission]

I caught sight of an article about English nationalism. It was full of yet again that 'The English feel abandonned with no say' vibe...Then he went on how 'they' do not really feel part of either Union, etc

At what point will the English deal with facts rather their feelings? England is the major nation of the UK itself a major member until the referendum of the EU. England is not a bit-part player yet there is this constant 'feeling' of being the little guys left out in the cold.

What a weirdly insecure people they are those poor English, it's almost as if they have relentlessly been browbeaten into thinking this by powerful media with vested interests...

The English in general or those in the regions or the working class?

[Nocturnal Submission]

[URL="https://twitter.com/grannymugger/status/1161173674503917569?s=21"]https://twitter.com/grannymugger/status/1161173674503917569[/URL]

That was in the Guardian article.