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    It's not just a "couple of dozen Labour MPs" who are fully aware that No Deal will really fuck the country. It's almost all of them. I think she's trying to squeeze Corbyn into backing the WA because if the clock runs out and the WA hasn't been approved we default to No Deal. She can't squeeze the ERG - if the clock runs out, we end up with no deal, which is fine by the ERG. She can't really squeeze the EU because, as LS and Berbs point out, the EU have no reason to throw a model member state under the bus in order to prove that leaving the EU can work.

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      So, between now and the Strasbourg conference, the UK media will have to read the runes from an Irish cabinet meeting.

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        There is talk that they have decided on 24 May as the new proposed exit date. This is the weekend of the European Parliament elections, so would allow the maximum time without the UK getting involved in those.

        This also accords with something said by a Sky News correspondent this morning which I hadn't given any thought to previously - "she is determined to cling on to power until at least 25 May, as that is the date her time as PM surpasses that of Gordon Brown". Because that is clearly the most important thing at play here, of course.

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          I really hope she dies a horrible awful death, alone and unloved. She already had blood on her hands as a home sec even worse than "Dr" John Reid, Straw or Howard. Fuckin C of E cant and dead eyed unthinking evil.fuck her fuckn legacy and the commentators that keeping evoking sympathy for her. She'd throw the country under a bus to save the Tory party. Mibees that and her useless RP accented God are the only things she truly loves.

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            Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
            It's not just a "couple of dozen Labour MPs" who are fully aware that No Deal will really fuck the country. It's almost all of them. I think she's trying to squeeze Corbyn into backing the WA because if the clock runs out and the WA hasn't been approved we default to No Deal. She can't squeeze the ERG - if the clock runs out, we end up with no deal, which is fine by the ERG. She can't really squeeze the EU because, as LS and Berbs point out, the EU have no reason to throw a model member state under the bus in order to prove that leaving the EU can work.
            Of course. But the Labour leadership want to make this a Tory Brexit. The last thing they want is any suggestion that what's on the table is about as good as it's going to get, unless they're prepared to accept FoM and be a rule-taker rather than a rule-maker. So a codicil added to the backstop or whatever ruse they come up with and the reluctant backing of the ERG & the usual group of Labour Leavers is better than a great slew of Labour Remainers in Leave-voting seats backing the WA to avoid a No Deal scenario, though I think that would be an excuse as there is virtually no chance of exiting without a deal.

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              But this is only the WA, not the Future Arrangements post transition deal. So May's original deal could pass and a real soft Brexit still be negotiated, if The Coalition of Chaos and bigotry collapsed post WA.

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                Though that would involve Labour not being triangle making dicks on FoM.

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                  I think Labour are doing the right thing here (not often I've said that about Brexit), and won't break. But I think May still hopes for them to crack under the time pressure. She can't "force" the ERG into voting for the WA, because that would make the ERG feel like they were stabbed in the back in a way that might split the UK and still leaves the UK taking regulations from Europe. That might be the final straw that splits the Tory Party. Which means she has to try and apply pressure elsewhere. If the ERG can say "We did what we could, but were stabbed in the back by Labour" they might still save the party from a full on ERG/UKIP splintering.

                  I also think that means that concessions from the EU, unless they're a complete cave-in to the gammons, are pointless for May. The gammons want to vote against any WA and hope to be bailed out by Labour members voting for it.

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                    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1105191854881075202

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                      Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                      "EUROPE!!!! remember that we cut ourselves off from the European mainstream and embarked on a series of pointless wars of religious persecution, entirely because Henry VIII's ballbag was ravaged by the Pox"

                      Also Do You like my KKKERRRRRAAAAAAZZZZZY hat!!!
                      Eh? Henry VIII may have told the Bishop of Rome to do one for political reasons, but he remained a Catholic, even if there was a slide away from the mysticism.

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                        Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                        But this is only the WA, not the Future Arrangements post transition deal. So May's original deal could pass and a real soft Brexit still be negotiated, if The Coalition of Chaos and bigotry collapsed post WA.
                        Precisely, unless the end game is remain in the EU, backing WA merely is the start of a long process (don't bet your house that 31.12.20 will be the end of extension period either..) that Labour, should they wish if they get into power at the next GE or when this awful govt collapses can see the UK end up in EEA+

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                          What does anyone gain from a two month delay?

                          That isn't enough time for them to do any of the myriad things they should have done already.

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                            Originally posted by Eggchaser View Post

                            Eh? Henry VIII may have told the Bishop of Rome to do one for political reasons, but he remained a Catholic, even if there was a slide away from the mysticism.
                            Aye, and the reasons other states/regions of states (like France with Hugenots) had for accepting Papal Authority shite /Lutheran shite/Calvinist shite/mad anabaptisim usually weren't any purer than Evil Henry anyways.

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                              Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                              What does anyone gain from a two month delay?

                              That isn't enough time for them to do any of the myriad things they should have done already.
                              May clings to power for two more months. It really is that basic.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                What does anyone gain from a two month delay?

                                That isn't enough time for them to do any of the myriad things they should have done already.
                                What do you mean? We can have two whole months more of "meaningful votes"

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                                  Also the wars of religious persecution/Three Kingdoms in Ukania well past the chucking out the window events of Prague were fuckin lovely sunshine and flowers stuff (even in Ireland) compared to what the Thirty Years War did to the German states/Central Europe in the Thirty Years War (thanks in no small part to the fucking Swedes and their Scottish/Russian/any cunt will do mercenary Prod army and their French pals prolonging matters). A third of German adult males dead at the end of that shite, General population ravaged by resulting famines.
                                  Last edited by Lang Spoon; 11-03-2019, 21:09.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post

                                    What do you mean? We can have two whole months more of "meaningful votes"
                                    but no time to pass actual and necessary legislation, not even fucking Henry VIII clause shite.

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                                      I can actually see May thinking that is a "win", but are each of the 27 willing to indulge her?

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                                        Looks like an all-nighter:

                                        http://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1105213270619762688

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                                          Originally posted by Eggchaser View Post

                                          Eh? Henry VIII may have told the Bishop of Rome to do one for political reasons, but he remained a Catholic, even if there was a slide away from the mysticism.
                                          He may have remained a Catholic in his own mind but he was excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. It's a hierarchical organisation with the power to expel members, not a vibes thing.

                                          The mothership may be diplomatic in its public positioning, but it doesn't regard the CofE as an equal custodian of the Catholic tradition, whatever the bells and smells end of the Anglican market might tell themselves.


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                                            here's the deal

                                            1. A joint interpretative instrument – a legal add-on to the withdrawal agreement. It will give legal force to a letter from Juncker and Donald Tusk, the presidents of the commission and council, given to May in January which stated the EU’s intention to negotiate an alternative to the backstop so it would not be triggered or get out of it as swiftly as possible, if it was.
                                            2. A unilateral statement from the UK. That is likely to seek to explain the British position that, if the backstop was to become permanent and talks were going nowhere on an alternative, the UK would seek to exit the arrangement.
                                            3. Additional language in the political declaration to emphasise the urgency on both sides to negotiate an alternative to the backstop, and flesh out what a technological fix would look like. It is hoped this will be enough to persuade the attorney general, Geoffrey Cox,to change his initial legal advice that the backstop could be in place indefinitely.

                                            The problem: Very, very little of this is significantly new. The most substantive element is the joint interpretative instrument. But it falls well short of Cox’s demands over the last week for what amounted to a unilateral exit mechanism from the backstop.

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                                              Lidington: Two docs - provides confirm that EU cannot try to trap UK staying in backstop indefinitely and UK lock on any new EU laws being added to the backstop

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                                                Robert Peston doesn't rate its chances of satisfying the ERG headbangers.

                                                Fear of not being able to drive the process from the back seat if it slips away from May must be a more powerful incentive for them to support the deal rather than any tinkering at this stage, surely?

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                                                  Give the Tories credit; they are spinning this hard.

                                                  Both the Telegraph and the Guardian have gone with "legally binding".

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                                                    https://twitter.com/carolinepennock/status/1105234433190301697

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