I just dont see any intermediate positions working. I've shifted on this, used to think that customs union worked because nobody who voted Labour cared about making hubristic Liam Fox trade deals. But I think you have to care about them being made without your say.
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I've no idea what anyone is going to do. I'm just not sure of the point of making up scenarios where the thing you've already said can't happen can't happen, and then going "see it can't happen".
You and Berbs between you are doing more to push me to defend / support the fucking awful Corbyn than anything or anyone else, by the way.
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I know a lot of the Tories are really fucking stupid, But They've obviously done their numbers and think this strategy has, at least an outside chance. Robbie Gibb is cunning and very well l connected so I imagine the BBC are (still) onside.So Labour Party activists and whichever of the FBPE?people's vote crowd who are prepared to get the Vote out are all that we've got left. Hold your nose, Tubby, and get canvassing.
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I'm not sure I should be canvassing given the reaction TonTon had to me. But I respect those who do, a lot.
There might be 2 days news cycle in this nonsense. Is there a strategy beyond that? I'm surprised May explicitly knocked back the "Gatt Article 24 10 years" rubbish. Could have got a day's worth of news out of that, I expect.
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Journalism as essay crisis. Then again, Cameron ran Downing Street as an essay crisis, so why shouldn't Delingpole do things that way? By a happy coincidence, learning about the subject confirms what he thought anyway, apparently- not clicking on Breitbart myself.
https://twitter.com/hhesterm/status/1089643877340991490
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Originally posted by hobbes View Post
Mate, I think you've massively underestimated just how badly collective insanity has taken hold over here. It doesn't matter what facts are deployed. It's way beyond that. And it's genuinely terrifying. Positions are that entrenched that if you told a die hard Brexiter that your jeans are blue they'd argue they were pink. While looking at your blue jeans.
This isn't going to end well whatever happens. However the constant banging on about Labour is infuriating, because they have no power or control over this. And it diverts attention away from where the real problem is.
The Banging on about Labour is happening because they are the only ones who can do anything. We get the that the Tories and most of the political bubble have lost their fucking minds, but the only way that the whole thing can remain so completely and utterly disconnected from external reality is that Labour insist on playing along by operating on their own plane of reality. We're eight weeks away from Brexit and labour are still talking about a special relationship with the single market.
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Originally posted by Snake Plissken View PostThe people campaigning for a second referendum have done the following in the last few days.- Trashed the Norway+ option which is the most sane Brexit
- Managed to get a grand total of 71 Labour MPs to support a second referendum
- Publically said hey would not support a Labour amendment for a second referendum
- Announced that they would have tabled their own amendment for a second referendum but won’t because Corbyn
The party’s alternative Brexit plan, which would be the subject of a separate vote if the amendment were carried, proposes that the UK remain in a post-Brexit customs union with the European Union and have a strong relationship with the single market. Citizens’ rights and consumer standards would be harmonised with the EU’s.
Corbyn said: “Our amendment will allow MPs to vote on options to end this Brexit deadlock and prevent the chaos of a no-deal. It is time for Labour’s alternative plan to take centre stage, while keeping all options on the table, including the option of a public vote.”
The thing about the Norway+ option is that it's complete nonsense. The + part can fuck right off, because that's not how these things work. But Ultimately Going for a Norway style brexit means you haven't actually really left the EU at all in any real sense. You've just decided that you don't want a vote any more. It is actually being ruled without having a say, rather than merely thinking you don't have a major say.
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What I don't get is that there was a lot of commentary at the time about people who never usually voted but turned up to vote in the referendum. So why are the politicians so scared about upsetting people who likely wouldn't bother to vote in the next general election anyway?
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- Jan 2012
- 3296
- Worthing
- The Hammers, until Mark Noble goes.(he's still there, sort of)
- Garibaldi, dipped in tea.
Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
The thing about the Norway+ option is that it's complete nonsense. The + part can fuck right off, because that's not how these things work. But Ultimately Going for a Norway style brexit means you haven't actually really left the EU at all in any real sense. You've just decided that you don't want a vote any more. It is actually being ruled without having a say, rather than merely thinking you don't have a major say.
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You do realise that many of us think having no influence in the EU whilst subject to their rules is actually the best outcome for us and the EU? That way, we don't get set adrift on Daily Mail Island, and you don't get us dragging our feet over every fucking regulatory proposal.
- Likes 1
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- Jan 2012
- 3296
- Worthing
- The Hammers, until Mark Noble goes.(he's still there, sort of)
- Garibaldi, dipped in tea.
That's a very good point; I mentioned some pages ago that the best 'Lexit' case I've heard was a fella who was a complete and utter Europhile, and thinks that we've been buggering up/dragging down the - as he saw it - very noble and necessary European project for decades.
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I feel like that most of the time as well. Other than the socialist nationalist* wing of Lexit, no one really thinks the EU is to the right of the UK government. So duct taping the UK's mouth shut for a while would do some good.
* not literal Nazis, of course, but I can't think of a better term for the Full Brexit/Larry Elliot concept of a beautiful British Lexit to get away from those conniving EU bureaucrats who have somehow managed to push neoliberalism on us against our will, ignoring that we have had Thatcherite governments for basically forty years.
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Originally posted by johnr View PostThat's a very good point; I mentioned some pages ago that the best 'Lexit' case I've heard was a fella who was a complete and utter Europhile, and thinks that we've been buggering up/dragging down the - as he saw it - very noble and necessary European project for decades.
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Banned
- Jun 2017
- 3026
- A long way from Utopia.
- India, Ireland & numerous, numerous ABscenarios...
- Far too many, currently...
Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View PostWhat I don't get is that there was a lot of commentary at the time about people who never usually voted but turned up to vote in the referendum. So why are the politicians so scared about upsetting people who likely wouldn't bother to vote in the next general election anyway?
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