I genuinely, genuinely hate this country.
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Originally posted by ad hoc View PostI think it might depend on how strong the rebellious Tories perceived the likelihood of a Corbyn led Labour government being the result of the government falling. If they thought that they could win an election after that, then they might go for it.
It's also possible that the more crafty of them might wait until the deal is nearly signed, with pretty much no room for manoeuvre and then act to bring down May, reasoning that Corbyn would then own whatever mess the country would get into as a result. Given that there is a sizeable proportion of MPs (on both sides of the house) who appear to think that this is all about party politics and their own power/status and as a result are not in the least bit concerned in the effects of this on actual people, this seems possible too.
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Originally posted by Janik View PostMay will be removed as leader of the Tory Party long before she loses a No Cofidence vote in the Commons. She will then announce that she will step down as Prime Minister in favour of her replacement in the Tories. None of this brings down the government, cf. the transition from Cameron to May, Thatcher to Major or indeed Blair to Brown. British Governments are allowed to change their Prime Minister mid-term, if they wish to.
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Originally posted by johnr View PostJust wondering LW, is your occasional flagging up of these sort of tweets a response to those (of us) who claim that Kuenssberg is biased to the right? If so, I still don't resile from that; what she is describing in that tweet is very close to fact, and that is indeed her job
I think hatred of Kuenssberg (and it is all focused on Kuenssberg) has become calcified to the point where it can be very hard to step back from and see the double standard in claiming (for example) that when Kuenssberg says Labour is in chaos it's bias, and when she says the Tories are it's simply fact, especially when her interpretation is shown within hours to be incorrect.
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https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1016357278612623360
That is a very hopeful way of looking at it. The variation here looks like noise and margin-of-error issues and little more. The bit of the graph around the turn of the year, when opinion apparently switchbacked repeatedly between an 8-10% majority agreeing to disagreeing then agreeing again and then finally a smaller margin disagreeing once more is probably the most instructive bit of it. In all likelihood overall opinion barely moved at all during this period, and the variation is just sampling error... which the record high remains with.Last edited by Janik; 13-07-2018, 10:30.
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SNP up in Scotland, Labour and Tories both significantly down:
https://mobile.twitter.com/britainel...08675086069762
Gives you:
SNP 48
Con 6
Lib Dems 4
Labour 1Last edited by Diable Rouge; 13-07-2018, 14:55.
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- Jan 2012
- 3291
- Worthing
- The Hammers, until Mark Noble goes.(he's still there, sort of)
- Garibaldi, dipped in tea.
Originally posted by Lucy Waterman View PostI just find it funny, John. The BBC is the most institutionally left-leaning organisation I've ever worked for, and that includes the Guardian and the Labour Party.
I think hatred of Kuenssberg (and it is all focused on Kuenssberg) has become calcified to the point where it can be very hard to step back from and see the double standard in claiming (for example) that when Kuenssberg says Labour is in chaos it's bias, and when she says the Tories are it's simply fact, especially when her interpretation is shown within hours to be incorrect.
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Originally posted by Crveni Vrag View PostSNP up in Scotland, Labour and Tories both significantly down:
https://mobile.twitter.com/britainel...08675086069762
Gives you:
SNP 48
Con 6
Lib Dems 4
Labour 1
Btw, what was yr old username (assuming it’s been changed)? The World Cup name changes twist my melon
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- Jan 2012
- 3291
- Worthing
- The Hammers, until Mark Noble goes.(he's still there, sort of)
- Garibaldi, dipped in tea.
Originally posted by johnr View PostThanks Lucy. Not working for but just observing them, it always seems to me that the BBC is broadly culturally and institionally 'left', whereas its news/current affairs output/viewpoint is very 'right'. Fwiw, I don't just think its Kuennsberg, it's also Neil, Humphreys, Robinson, Dimbleby, the Editors, etc.
https://twitter.com/RegencyLabour/st...02346154332160
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I think I've gone over to the full on Stop Brexit side now. Even the proper soft Brexit will lead to enough of a write down to bring (genuine) economic anxiety that'll probably help nationalist goons push the rest of the way to oblivion.
I don't underestimate the practical difficulties for any mainstream politician having to get us out of this shit.
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Looks like UKIP are back:
Lab 40% (-)
Con 36% (-6)
UKIP 8% (+5)
Lib Dem 8% (+1)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...neral-election
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Nick Cohen is obviously more often to wrong than right these days, but this is good (despite the by now standard non sequitur paragraph about the "Marxist" Labour Party)
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/0...lot-on-brexit/
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Old Labour "intellectual" left Eurosceptic, Bryan Gould.
http://www.bryangould.com/what-brexit-is-really-about/
In which he asserts that Britain's EU deal was "very bad" and good for France and Germany- which is an odd reading of the economic performance of Britain and France in the EU. And that working people had their "employment prospects" messed up by Eastern European immigrants, as well as access to housing and public services, apparently. No evidence is provided for these assertions at all.
Of all the political and media actors, he hones in on "bien pensants" associated with The Guardian who want to overturn the referendum result. Brussels is "punishing" Britain, but Brexit is an "opportunity" provided "hearts and minds are big enough". Not the slightest hint of a plan.
You won't get a better example of Lexitism being the mirror image of Rees Mogg Brexit.
How much of service Neil Kinnock did marginalizing this sort of nonsense in Labour.
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From the Mail, so I'll spare you the link.
My deal is the only Brexit deal - wreck it at your peril: THERESA MAY's steely warning to Tory rebels AND those bully boys from Brussels
Our Brexit deal for Britain seizes the moment to deliver the democratic decision of the British people and secure a bright new future for our country outside the European Union.
It restores our national sovereignty, so that it is our Government that decides who comes into our country, our Parliaments that make our laws and our courts that enforce them.
It puts an end to the vast membership subscriptions we pay to Brussels, delivering a Brexit dividend to support domestic priorities like our long-term plan for the NHS.
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