Oh come on, it's fun...
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Yet another "fuck Labour" moment again today, as Thornberry says:
“Our reservation about being in the single market is that we would have to accept things as they currently are in relation to immigration,” she said. “We can’t pretend that the referendum, part of the debate, wasn’t about immigration.”Comment
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Indeed. Fucking awful shite.Comment
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The really disappointing thing about this is that all the 'legitimate concern' talk seems to have faded somehow in the last couple years: the more vocal Brexiters' focus has shifted to the EU and its bureaucrats being the villains of the piece rather than Poles and Romanians, and all the talk is now about trade deals and customs checks.
So to see Labour not only stick to this shitty line on immigration, but actually bring it back up as a major topic when nobody is even asking them about it is unimpressive to say the least.Comment
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Indeed.
As a side-point, if Labour were now saying 'yes' to both a CU and SM, would they basically be saying 'Remain'? I think that this 'we have to find a shit reason for being against FM' might be a very bad way of refusing to go the whole hog (which, if there were a different reason, I'd be OK with, preferring as I do an election, 2nd Ref, and Remain, in that order).Comment
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Or Norway+.As a side-point, if Labour were now saying 'yes' to both a CU and SM, would they basically be saying 'Remain'?Comment
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Are we expecting any major shift in the indicative votes compared to last week's outcome?
Given that they seem to be in the same yes/no format I can't see that, for example, the SNP/TIG/etc will back the customs union motion - which they presumably would in a either/or vote between it and no deal.
Seems the cabinet is still being told to abstain again so unless the "One Nation" group in the Cabinet resigns before the vote (and they are meeting before the vote so it's possible) then can't see a big shift on the Tory side of the vote for softer options. Though I haven't looked in any detail at the level below the Cabinet as to whether any of them will shift.
Suspect we're going to end up in another situation where nothing will get a majority and it'll be back to May uff uffing about her deal being the only deal. Seems it needs to come to a head in some form of run-off, either/or voting, but don't know how they get to that, politically or procedurally.Comment
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I feel like Labour are going to pander themselves out of a majority by constantly dogwhistling to mythical flat-capped Northerner who hates migrants who probably don't vote Labour anyway.Originally posted by Fussbudget View Post
This kind of shit won't fly in London, Scotland and pretty much every university town in the country to name a few places.
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Bizarro response from Steve Baker to the Julian Smith interview:
[URL]https://twitter.com/SteveBakerHW/status/1112642436327763969[/URL]
Never mind that most of these aren't compromises ("We accepted the Article 50 route", seriously?). Baker voted against the deal. He explicitly rejected the compromises.Comment
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This came up in that long Politico piece.
The ERG are now claiming that the use of the Article 50 process was the original "betrayal" of their version of Brexit.
It is utter nonsense, but then so is virtually everything they say.Comment
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To be fair, using the Article 50 process the way May did was a betrayal of a (successful, on its own terms anyway) hard Brexit, because it mean there wasn't time to prepare. But of course it was the ERG that were pushing the hardest for early notification, so they can't really complain about it now.Comment
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That's not what they are arguing, though.
They are claiming that there was a unicorn-based model in which all aspects of Brexit would be determined by "negotiation" completely outside of the Article 50 process. And that at least some of those "negotiations" would be with individual member states rather than the EU (the kind of homage to "divide and conquer" that one would expect from Imperial nostalgics).Comment
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SNP have now confirmed they are voting for "Boles" = Single Market + Customs Union. Not sure that makes things much clearer as it was 94 votes adrift last week.Originally posted by Walt Flanagans Dog View PostComment
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....and now Labour are said to be whipping in favour too. Last week 143/245 Labour MPs voted in favour.Comment
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So what was Throneberry playing at then? This is good, probably the closest thing you can find to a genuine compromise, but how does your shadow Foreign Secretary go on TV yesterday and say the opposite?Comment
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Originally posted by Flynnie View Post
Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry has been speaking on the BBC News channel.
She says the issue of freedom of movement means the party is not “comfortable” with the idea of being in the single market.
“We’ve said throughout, for the last couple of years, it’s difficult for us to be in the single market.”
But “we’re trying to find a compromise” she says, “so therefore we will be voting for things which are broadly in line with our new policy, even things that are not exactly in line with our policy".
The Common Market 2.0 option is “going to be better than Theresa May’s deal, and certainly better than no deal, so we will be voting for that," she says.Comment
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She did a U-turn on the radio at lunchtime today, probably due to Labour only just changing stance this morning. They've decided that f-ing over the Tories trumps any concerns over immigration - and rightly so, but as you say why send her out to say the complete opposite 24 hours earlier when this was still a possibility.Originally posted by Flynnie View Post
Robert Peston is quoting a prediction saying it could pass by 307-253. That's going to need a minimal Labour rebellion and some Tories switching (from abstention, probably) - last week they voted against by 225-36.
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This is all wrong; TAB told us - repeatedly and with lots of swearwords - that Corbyn was going for disaster socialism via leaving the EU with no deal, and would fuck over the membership by only pretending to back a 2nd ref.Comment
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Johnr, maybe save the mockery until Labour has walked the *whole* walk, and you can crow over TAB with no risk of that being premature. There's a long way to go yet and Labour have chopped and changed and fudged their way until nobody knows what they stand for on Brexit if anything. I sincerely hope you get to crow in the end, but I'm not holding my breath.Comment
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Also, something softer than "We want a deal, not no deal" needs to pass the Commons before we can even think about spiking the football.Comment
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Agreed, very much want you to be right on this John btw, i'll be happy to eat copious amounts of humble pie...Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss View PostComment
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Fair enough, sorry about the crowing. (I'll always go back to Corbyn's 'Remain and Reform', and what I think was its misrepresentation, and as I've said early in the thread, that's roughly where I think we'll end up anyway). My crowing, such as it was, was more about the vehement 'Corbyn is a fucking idiot and/or disaster socialist' and brooking no opposition to that view; of course, like y'all (I'm presuming Luke R isn't looking in anymore...), I'm watching it all in the very great hope that we can avoid the worst of this shitshow, and hoping that it doesn't go wrong now.Comment
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Labour reportedly whipping for all options except unilaterally revoke.Comment
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So, the only actually good option that isn't dependent on forces beyond control.Comment
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