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    Varoufakis's book is very interesting and well-written and pretty bang on as a set text for constructive Left Remainerism. I'd recommend it, though he has a certain academic's arrogance.

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      but Barnier is there precisely so the others don't have to put up with the UK's shite.

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        He is 27 in one. They already tried lurking around the Baltics playing a pathetic security card, the only possible country that might be pre-disposed toward you (the no weather at all 26 county zone on the BBC maps) has stopped even being polite over the pish coming from these wanks. It's a potentially disastrous side effect of Brexit that British incompetence and delusion makes Varadkar look the rational actor and almost statesmanlike. Fine Gael returning with more seats and that's that for progressive fuck all or any chance of thinking about mass building of social housing for the kids who will never be able to buy.

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          Edit- this is the correct UK FT front page. Might be the EU "blitz" on US tech that was embargoed. I sure hope it wasn't the "May woos youngsters" story.

          Last edited by Tubby Isaacs; 08-09-2017, 23:08.

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            It was

            Note that the FT has a history of being quicker with the Embargo trigger than most/all other UK papers (in part because it takes continental European circulation more seriously).

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              Hah, i was having a chat with a friend of mine who is definitely a nordie, and notionally a protestant of some description (it's never really come up) and he was asking me about our minister for foreign affairs tallking about joint authority, and i had to admit that I wasn't sure what simple simon was on about. But that he must be secretly delighted that he's dealing with the north because brokenshire makes him look like otto von fucking bismarck.

              There are no votes for fine gael when it comes to the north. Brexit is going to bring misery to the northern part of our country and they will take the blame, even though this is entirely the uk's fault. People take economic misfortune personally and get angry with the government.

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                I'm sure Varadkar is delighted Simple Simon gets landed with responsibility for Brexit Clusterfuck. They might as well give the Shinners and FF all the seats from Louth to Shligo. But like the Brits Leo seems more concerned with short term hobbling of frenemies rather than have Top Minds (or even fuck sake Charlie Flanagan would be a safer pair of hands than mysteriously suspended from Jesuit Erin Eton Coveney) on the job.

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                  As much as I enjoy Chariots of Fire, I've come to believe that English Upper Class culture is the worst culture ever. It's ruined so much and won't quit.

                  Some reading I've been doing lately suggests that the American revolution really only happened - and turned out the way it did - because the English poshos were so just fucking arrogant and detached. They squandered so the goodwill of so many potential loyalists in the colonies by ransacking the countryside. Before the war kicked off, the battle on both sides of the Atlantic was between the Whigs and Tories, not Americans vs British. Yeah, Britain outlawed slavery first, but only did so because it was to its economic and geopolitical advantage. When push cane to shove and it has a chance to join the fight to end it once and for all, they came close to intervening on the wrong side. We owe gratitude to the British working class for helping to prevent that from happening.

                  The Toffs ruin everything.

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                    'Tis now and t'was ever thus

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                      It's not specific to the English upper class. They were all shit. The Hungarian nobility were utter twats who just protected their own interests constantly. I assume the same is true of all European aristocrats. The best thing that can be said about communism in Eastern Europe is that it broke the back of the nobles. They're trying to find a way back now but with luck they won't succeed

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                        Oh god. You've reminded me of reading "The Habsburg Monarchy" and how every time there was a bit of movement away from authoritarianism and centralisation the Hungarian nobility used it as leverage to get more power for themselves. Which is what you just said. I still feel sorry for the Croatian nationalists who ended up getting screwed.

                        I guess the Junkers are another example aren't they?

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                          lets have a big shout out for the Spanish nobility, and their culture of toxic masculinity that nearly killed an entire continent.

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                            Blair steps in again (thanks for that) to bang the drum for that particularly unattractive strand of Remainerism that's prepared to chuck immigrants under the bus for the wider cause. Wonder if this will get described as "populism".

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                              Fuck the fuck off King of the Sensibles.

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                                Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
                                Blair steps in again (thanks for that) to bang the drum for that particularly unattractive strand of Remainerism that's prepared to chuck immigrants under the bus for the wider cause. Wonder if this will get described as "populism".
                                Staying in the EU isn't really "populism" from where I'm standing.

                                The immigrants are being chucked under the bus by Hard Brexit at the moment. "The wider cause" includes Freedom of Movement, which is the very opposite of chucking immigrants under the bus. Some fiddling at the fringes of freedom of movement might help form part of an acceptable soft Brexit, so it's worth somebody giving thought to it.

                                My hope at the moment is that things go so badly that Labour feels confident enough to come out against Brexit or unequivocally for a second referendum that goes the right way. But I'm not betting on it.

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                                  What makes you think Blair's tinkering with immigration regulations within the framework of the EU would be any more successful than Cameron's pre-referendum attempt? And if the "wider cause is freedom of movement", how does restricting it for some people help that cause. A freedom-of-movement that is selective and denies freedom to some people isn't, by definition, freedom of movement.

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                                    When Cameron did that, the electorate (or at least enough of them to sway the referendum) thought we could leave, control all EU immigration and not leave the Single Market. Too many of them still believe that now, but that won't always be the case.

                                    Switzerland basically got out of the shit with its referendum by doing a bit of fiddling within existing treaties.
                                    Last edited by Tubby Isaacs; 10-09-2017, 22:18.

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                                      On principle, I don't think we should be curtailing the rights of immigrants in order to stay in the EU, whether or not that's possible.

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                                        The reason why the Uk didn't really go to the lengths that some other EU countries go to limit eu migrants, is that it's pointless, and it is a massive throbbing pain in the balls for everyone involved. And it's an expensive and time consuming nightmare. the other reason that they didn't do it is that there is literally no problem with eu migration. There are literally no measurable downsides to eu migration, they are there to pay for and operate the welfare state, not benefit from it. Certainly that's what the Home office says in all of their embargoed reports.

                                        It's the thing I really don't like about tony blair. He will always let you down, and seem so fucking smug and happy with himself as he does it.

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                                          This is a particular take https://averypublicsociologist.blogs...-nonsense.html

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                                            They're not rights, as I understand it. It's stuff we could have done all along but didn't. Miliband and Cooper were casting around for stuff and didn't go down this road, so I'd be surprised if it added up to as much as it sounds. Maybe a chunk of it is likely to be struck down in court, and they could see that coming. Making a song and dance about tough new measures that get chucked out by "EU judges" would be a very bad look. That would be like Cameron "wait till I've negotiated tough stuff!... Oh shit, I haven't!"

                                            Beating Brexit or getting to where there's a vote for a second referendum is a huge ask, and is going to need quite a coalition. I suppose you might get some of the Caroline Flint types support a second referendum would probably need something like Blair's proposing. But no need for Corbyn or Starmer to bother with it now.

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                                              Can't wait to find out what's going to happen to the poor football players.

                                              If those fuckers get a pass, there better be civil war.

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                                                Blair's administration opened Yarl's Wood and Colnbrook immigration detention centres, among others. It's bizarrely generous to cast him as anything better than an amoral racist thug. It's about time he was citizen's arrested again, hopefully with a taser.

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                                                  I still feel let down and abandoned by the Labour leadership for allowing the pro-Europe position to be entirely taken over by the Liberals and Blairites.

                                                  Even so, I realise that Corbyn has to play a long game, treading a very delicate line. The likes of Blair are patently less interested in defending the rights of European citizens than in using us as a stick to stir the shit with.

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