The Brexit Thread

[Me Old Flower]

So the Lisbon 2020 bullshit doing the rounds on Facebook is now being shared by Esther McVey.

[Snake Plissken]

Turns out that May is trying not to have a meaningful vote after all. Who would have thought it?

(Yvette Cooper. Who, fair play to her, got May a month ago to say it would be a meaningful vote while stood at the dispatch box. So if the vote does change, we can add "straight up lying to the House of Commons" to her charge sheet.)

[Sporting]

The vote seems to be going ahead.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

The vote seems to be going ahead.

A vote, of some kind - we don't know what yet. Corbyn has been granted an Urgent Question on it at 3.30, but it is not clear whether the PM will be there to answer it - she was previously due to make a statement but pulled out and put the Brexit secretary in her place, so she is already doing her best to avoid the House today. Could be an interesting afternoon, or maybe not.

[Eggchaser]

I wish I was allowed to have an Urgent Question on Brexit in the House of Commons.

[Diable Rouge]

ERG irked that Coveney got the jump on May's Strasbourg trip.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

They've put up a minister (not even Secretary of State) to answer Corbyn's question. Who (the minister, that is) is currently saying, as expected, that f*** all has happened.

[ursus arctos]

Is there a precedent for the "You Don't Know What You're Doing" chant to break out on the opposition benches?

[Nocturnal Submission]

Well, there is a government plan, which is to take negotiations down to the wire in the hope that the EU will blink and make enough of a concession on the back-stop to swing the ERG and DUP behind the deal. It could be a disastrous miscalculation by the government, but frankly the EU's form for last-minute activity has encouraged an awful lot of Brexiteers to believe that running the clock down is a potentially fruitful negotiating ploy. The latter have been saying similar for years now.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Every day children and not too wise adults run at a pillar between two platforms in kings cross station in london, in the mistaken hope that if they time it just right they will be sucked into the world of harry potter. And every day someone has to deal with the concussed crying children who learn that not everything they read is true. This is hilarious when it happens to small children. When adults are doing it, then all you can do is turn your face away.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Hmmmmm, but then the Greek economy at the turn of the Millennium managed to pass the Euro convergence criteria so sometimes magical things do happen in EULand.

[Diable Rouge]

http://twitter.com/wabbey/status/1105131045916237824

Equally, if not more, applicable to the EU.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

And if everything wasn't absurd and embarrassingly uk-bubble-focused enough, lets take some time out to inject some Anglicanism into things. because Europeans don't find that weird in the slightest.

[Benjm]

TM might have made a good Archbishop of Canterbury; she is highly ineffectual, does unintentionally hilarious wounded gravitas well and gets stuck right into angels-on-pinheads navel gazing regardless of what's going on in the wider world.

Her voice could do with being a bit sillier, but she has a strong foundation to build on even in that department.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

"EUROPE!!!! remember that we cut ourselves off from the European mainstream and embarked on a series of pointless wars of religious persecution, entirely because Henry VIII's ballbag was ravaged by the Pox"

Also Do You like my KKKERRRRRAAAAAAZZZZZY hat!!!

[Ginger Yellow]

but frankly the EU's form for last-minute activity has encouraged an awful lot of Brexiteers to believe that running the clock down is a potentially fruitful negotiating ploy

At first glance, sure, but that last minute activity was generally in aid of keeping member states in the Union.

[Duncan Gardner]

While in Stratford upon Avon at the weekend I visited the Guildhall's Chapel and enjoyed a nice tour by the curator. She explained that in Good Queen Bess's day Shaky's Da was basically the town clerk charged with covering then destroying the religious iconography.Luckily he didn't and yer gaily cavorting papists are now nicely restored

[Nocturnal Submission]

At first glance, sure, but that last minute activity was generally in aid of keeping member states in the Union.

Fair point. But there is a widespread belief that the EU often moves late to get tricky issues over the line, whatever they might be. If they had a history of striking deals early and sticking to them to the letter, of showing absolutely no flexibility with their rules and procedures, of treating fudge as a sickly sweet form of confectionery and nothing else and so on, we might well be somewhere else in the Brexit negotiations.

[ad hoc]

And if everything wasn't absurd and embarrassingly uk-bubble-focused enough, lets take some time out to inject some Anglicanism into things. because Europeans don't find that weird in the slightest.

I dunno, of all the things that Europeans think are weird about the British, having a weird religion with odd rituals and stupid clothes seems fairly low down the list, given that every single country in Europe has at least one or two of them.

[San Bernardhinault]

Well, there is a government plan, which is to take negotiations down to the wire in the hope that the EU will blink and make enough of a concession on the back-stop to swing the ERG and DUP behind the deal. It could be a disastrous miscalculation by the government, but frankly the EU's form for last-minute activity has encouraged an awful lot of Brexiteers to believe that running the clock down is a potentially fruitful negotiating ploy. The latter have been saying similar for years now.

Wait? What? I thought the plan was to take it down to the wire to force Labour MPs and the few Tory Remainers to vote for the WA because No Deal seems so much worse. Not in order to squeeze the EU for concessions that are - by defintion - going to be meaningless.

[Lang Spoon]

What exactly are these last minute cave ins the EU is famous for?

and seeing any real cave in over the backstop will involve throwing another member state (and the pliant poster boy for Austerity Works at that) under a bus, I don't think it's going to happen.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

This isn't a negotiation though. The EU is telling the UK what to do and how high to jump. The UK hasn't twigged this and thinks that they some say in this matter. That's the real problem here.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Wait? What? I thought the plan was to take it down to the wire to force Labour MPs and the few Tory Remainers to vote for the WA because No Deal seems so much worse. Not in order to squeeze the EU for concessions that are - by defintion - going to be meaningless.

The deal needs more than Tory Remainers and a couple of dozen Labour MPs to pass through the Commons.

[Nocturnal Submission]

What exactly are these last minute cave ins the EU is famous for?

and seeing any real cave in over the backstop will involve throwing another member state (and the pliant poster boy for Austerity Works at that) under a bus, I don't think it's going to happen.

Not cave-ins, but tweaks, minor concessions, a blurring of lines. I think that would be sufficient to get most ERGers to back the deal.

[Lang Spoon]

But the backstop by definition can have no time limit amd can't be unilaterally revoked by the UK and is only UK wide at the fuckin UK's request.