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    Yeah but Corbyn would have been forced out and that is the main thing.

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      I mean where are we now? 7 weeks out?

      Labour might be supporting Norway but it might not. It hasn't told anyone this comes with freedom of movement.

      I think the Single Market was the thing to argue for first, rather than freedom of movement. But can't see a proper case has been made for that. Ought to have been very easy. And no fucking state aid waffle.

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        Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
        Yeah but Corbyn would have been forced out and that is the main thing.
        The main thing for whom? In the context of Brexit, which is a long-term catastrophe for Britain, and the single most important thing to happen to the UK (well, jointly with EU accession I suppose) since 1945, do you have any idea just what a triviality the identity of Labour's leader in the short term is? Do you really think the 750,000 people marching for a 2nd referendum in London consider personnel changes at the head of Labour to be the big issue of the day? If so, you (and any other Corbynites who think the same) are narcissistic beyond belief. It really isn't about you. We couldn't give a flying toss.

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          SK is saying that for Corbyn’s opponents getting rid of the left leadership Is the main thing. There weren’t 750 000 -(I was there)

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            Anybody with any skill would have leveraged something that march. I dunno, "shows how many people appreciate the benefits of EU membership, and we'll do whatever it takes to keep them".

            Corbyn's reaction was "Fuck off, I'm talking about 1973 Chile".

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              Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
              Anybody with any skill would have leveraged something that march. I dunno, "shows how many people appreciate the benefits of EU membership, and we'll do whatever it takes to keep them".
              I think this is fair enough. I mean it's clear that there have been missed opportunities to try and speak to / work towards the positive needs of both the disanfranchised/left behind who voted leave, as well as the positive remainers who see the value and benefits of the EU.



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                Peston reporting that Corbyn took out a paragraph on a referendum from the letter he sent to May, which had been drafted by Starmer. Starmer isn't happy.

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                  Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                  I think this is fair enough. I mean it's clear that there have been missed opportunities to try and speak to / work towards the positive needs of both the disanfranchised/left behind who voted leave, as well as the positive remainers who see the value and benefits of the EU.


                  Yep.

                  It's frustrating because he gets the disenfranchised side well.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                    Kate Hoey. Imposed on Vauxhall by Tony Blair to prevent a black woman getting the seat
                    Hoey was first elected in Vauxhall in 1989, 5 years before Blair became leader.

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                      It was Kinnock - sorry

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                        0.4% GDP contraction in December. Figures for the quarter mere 0.2% growth.

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                          Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                          It was Kinnock - sorry
                          That prompted a re-read of Defeat from the Jaws of Victory about this episode (see page 265-270). Hoey's sole nomination came from the SE Region of the CWS (they pulled the same trick years later to give Dobson the Labour nomination) and she received no nominations from any of the affiliated branches to the Vauxhall Party and that seemed precisely why she was chosen by the NEC.
                          "I'm in it to win. That's my attitude to life and to politics."—Neil Kinnock, December 1989 Defeat from the Jaws of Victory takes the reader behind closed doors to witness Kinnock's Labour hierarchy in action—fixing votes, stage-managing meetings, dispensing patronage to favourites and settling scores with enemies. Riding high on the backlash against the Bennite rebellion of the early 1980s, Kinnock went on to build the most autocratic regime in Labour's history. Centralizing power in a vastly expanded private office, he destroyed the party's democratic structures, stripped it of any trace of radical policy, and purged it of hundreds of dissident members. Every nook and cranny of the Labour machine was filled with careerists whose primary qualification was personal loyalty to their leader. Under Kinnock's aegis the party ran up a £2.5 million overdraft, and proved incapable of removing an unpopular Tory government in the midst of the worst recession since the war. Heffernan and Marqusee employ extensive research in Labour's archives and interviews with leading MPs, party employees and constituency members to chronicle, with unsparing accuracy, a decade-long drive for power which was ruthless, reactionary and, in the final analysis, spectacularly unsuccessful.

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                            Kinnock did get, to his credit, get rid of Europhobe bollocks. This was a huge problem, and would have fucked up Labour even if they'd won in 1992. They had dozens who couldn't even do John Smith the favour of abstaining on Maastricht in the final vote. Who's Marquesee calling reactionary?



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                              Well, this isn't very convincing.

                              https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1094959415256629248

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                                Maybe there's more cake around than hitherto thought...https://twitter.com/tom_nuttall/stat...33599642636288

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                                  That's a cake problem our end- the problem of getting parliamentary support for Remain/referendum. That's different from what's normally called cake- ie ourselves deciding on something the EU laugh out of town.

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                                    A shame then, what the likes of Hoey degenerated to then.

                                    She sounds pretty vile all round now.

                                    This seems good for a laugh though.

                                    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status...923607553?s=19
                                    Last edited by George C.; 11-02-2019, 22:39.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by hobbes View Post
                                      Yeah. I think had Labour done what SB wants for the last couple of years, we'd have a massive Tory majority right now and the press would have eviscerated Labour completely.
                                      And people would have gone for them as a scapegoat. As it us all the Heil and the Tory graph had was calling judges traitors which didn't sit well with anyone.
                                      I think SB, you underestimate the febrile atmosphere back here in Blighty. If Labour had been explicitly pro reversal from the start they'd be finished. It's only in the last 3 months that it's become even slightly possible without getting destroyed.
                                      I obviously don't live in the UK any more, so I guess I need to defer on that.

                                      But I still think this is a very weird attitude: That the opposition shouldn't oppose something that will obviously fuck up the country because they're worried it will piss people off to oppose it. Should the opposition only make statements and take political positions based on their general popularity rather than on what is right? And only based on the absolute next general election rather than on how it will drive the future discussion.

                                      The fact that nobody has made the positive case for the EU is shocking; and I'm convinced it's one of the main reasons that the government can get away with their lies about surviving no deal, with their lies about the Irish Border, with their lies about, well, everything Brexit related. And with the British media basically parroting either the establishment line (that Brexit's been voted for so therefore it's a done deal) or pushing the ERG line, the only way to get the pro-EU argument out is for the opposition to do it.

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                                        It's more like that the establishment's parroting the British media line...

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                                          https://www.theguardian.com/politics...vin-williamson

                                          Defence Secretary, Kenny Everett, today said "Let's bomb China".

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                                            If the best that SDP Nua can manage are Rachel Riley and JK Rowling, then Corbyn's safe enough.

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                                              Try looking at evidence, Gloria, instead of listening to thickos.

                                              https://twitter.com/GloriaDePiero/status/1094974877927424000

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                                                Especially since Lidl is one of the few companies that pay the living wage.

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                                                  90% of UK hauliers are still waiting on an ECMT permit:

                                                  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8772456.html

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                                                    Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
                                                    Especially since Lidl is one of the few companies that pay the living wage.
                                                    Ha ha, really?

                                                    May wants two more weeks apparently. This is like watching Monty Panesar and James Anderson at Cardiff, stellar timewasting. All we're missing is Marcus North.

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