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    If the UK wants to honour the referendum, move on from Brexit and not be idiotic about it then it should join the EFTA and remain in the EEA. Anything else isn’t going to end the conversation - rejoining the EU will be the biggest political topic in the country until we rejoin the EU. Which will be tied to the hardness of Brexit, the harder the Brexit the sooner we’ll rejoin. Leavers will become harder to find and not just because a sizeable portion will be dead. Demographics make that pretty likely to happen.

    I find it truly remarkable the game both parties are playing. The Tories will bleed votes due to this disaster and Corbyn is alienating his own membership and specifically his biggest backers. If the Labour right had the political nous God gave a squirrel, they would make much more hay with this. Instead they seem mainly trapped in a self-congratulatory bleating if I told you so. But a soft left candidate who doesn’t deviate too far from domestic Corbynism but is explicitly pro-EU could make real inroads.

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      At this point to midnight I can't believe Labour are still anti SM on triangulating grounds, that The Irish Question is so carelessly dealt with. It's really worrying.

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        Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
        At this point to midnight I can't believe Labour are still anti SM on triangulating grounds, that The Irish Question is so carelessly dealt with. It's really worrying.
        I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they are basically thinking “Yeah, cool, we hope there’s a border poll. Tiocfaidh ár lá.”

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          fucking gobshites.

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            They are taking British exceptionalism to its logical conclusion.

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              Excellent piece by Gary Younge

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                Hmmmm.

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                  There's nothing noble about voting to make the world how you want it, if how you want it is more racist and insular.

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                    Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                    I don't know why people are so upset by the prospect of some right wing nuts losing the plot and turning violent. The UK Govt is perfectly capable of shooting unarmed people in the street, and locking people up without trial, and conspiring with criminals to murder their political opponents. You'll be fine. As long as they remember to murder and imprison the right people.
                    Aye, they've got a great record in that...

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                      https://twitter.com/dsquareddigest/status/1091296266171138048

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                        The new Chemical Brothers album has a Very Brexit Cover.

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                          So the evidence this customs arrangement might happen is a German think tank have proposed it? It might, but why should the EU concede that?

                          Anyway, we're still left with "strong single market relationship".

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                            Kev I think you mean post brexit....

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                              That is what I mean, yeah. That Mad Max Dystopia we've been so looking forward not to experience.

                              Can you see the big crazy face in (between) the clouds?

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                                Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                                So the evidence this customs arrangement might happen is a German think tank have proposed it? It might, but why should the EU concede that?

                                Anyway, we're still left with "strong single market relationship".
                                Turkey being a member of EUCU and having multiple independent FTAs is an example of this isn't it?

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                                  Originally posted by Kevin S View Post

                                  Turkey being a member of EUCU and having multiple independent FTAs is an example of this isn't it?
                                  I meant having a vote on the EU trade deals. Turkey doesn't get that.

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                                    Ah right. If I'm reading the proposal correctly, this one suggests that the UK would not pursue its own FTAs, so I guess that's the trade-off: Turkey gets no vote but can have its own FTAs. UK can have a vote if it doesn't have its own FTAs?

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                                      There's a logic to that, but has that offer ever been made to anyone else?

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                                        Bryan might help with translation, but appears Swedish Democrats no longer want to leave the EU?

                                        https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/s...angre-lamna-eu

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                                          https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1091372573936545793

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                                            Wow, that's a ln IEA level of genius German think tank. After the shite ye have pulled good luck thinking an Irish ref would amend the treaties in your favour.

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                                              Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                                              That link you have there doesn't link to the piece. I think this is the one you're looking for. Most Articles by Younge are excellent. That article is a mess. .

                                              Leave Voters weren't voting to make themselves poorer. They were promised that it would have minimal negative impacts, and had a substantial upside. I mean one of the major Leave Promises was that an extra £350 million a week would be spent on the NHS. They were just flat out lied to. Leave Voters might now say that they don't care if it makes it poorer, but that's because a lot of people would sooner cut off their left hand than admit that they had made a terrible mistake. They just were drowned in a steady 35+ years of lies about the EU, that escalated to a campaign based around promising everyone, everything they could want. And A lot of people liked it. No-one wants to admit they were conned. They actually really wanted to buy a murderously dangerous Monorail from that guy with a song.

                                              Poor people in America protest against healthcare not because of something in Uncle tom They're doing it because they are protesting against Obama because every time they turn on the television or radio they were hearing that he was a muslim communist who wasn't even american. When you don't call it Obamacare they seem to quite like a lot of it. The Slaves In Uncle tom's cabin don't want to be slaves because it is horrendous. If people think that the EU is an imposition on their freedom, then either they're a hedge fund owner, or they are really badly informed about the constraints EU membership places on their lives.

                                              People outside the UK would have an easier job of understanding the "Take back control" narrative if the UK didn't have the most childish electoral system in Europe, which is explicitly designed to remove as much control as possible from voters, and place it in the hands of the leadership cadres of one of two large parties who manages to get the slightly larger minority of votes. Leaving the EU isn't going to change that.

                                              This is something that people seem to be missing from the rise of populist parties. Traditional parties are limited in the promises they can make by reality, and explaining how they are going to pay for it, but populist parties can promise any old shit and people love it. For instance in italy the northern League and the Five star offered people a heady diet of two different styles of completely undeliverable promises. All they've managed to do is drive italy into a recession, and delivered nothing other than a much nastier attitude to migrants. There's a lot of people giving Jeremy Corbyn a lot of credit for how Labour did at the last election, but a lot of that came down to running a platform of promising to give people shit, without ever really adequately explaining how the fuck they were going to pay for it. this is grand if you're just trying to grow the party vote, but if you get elected, then you're fucked.

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                                                It's nominative determinism time, as Max Gammon stands up and chats a load of absolute shite.

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                                                  Apologies to our NE posters:

                                                  https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1091719558589829120

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                                                    Labour Leavers defecting?

                                                    http://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1091762049099677697

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