The Brexit Thread

[ursus arctos]

In Flanders, two of one’s middle names are often those of one’s godparents. My guess is that his godmother was Marie Louise.

[Flynnie]

Erm, no. It was his comments about a European army, and others, that I suggested that the Leave campaign would use, rather than the mildly amusing nature of one of his middle names. I just used it in the same way that OTFers sometimes use Boris Johnson's similarly grand full name. I know that political campaigning can become rather puerile but I wasn't suggesting that it would sink quite that low.

As you mention it though, the use of female names for Flemish males is news to me. Tell me more.

It's a Catholic thing in a lot of countries, and especially in the Low Countries. Going as far as Verhofstadt's name is something of a giveaway that he's from a bourgeois, semi-religious family - Papa Verhofstadt was a lawyer for a liberal trade union. But it's common. In the Netherlands, more people stick to Maria, but not always: Aloysius Paulus Maria van Gaal, Dennis Nicolaas Maria Bergkamp, Franciscus Cornelis Gerardus Maria Timmermans, Hubertus Jozef Margaretha Stevens.

In a related development, vaguely Latin-y sounding names is a good sign that the Dutchman in question is a Catholic, or at least from a traditionally Catholic family (seeing as nobody goes to Mass anymore). Franciscus and Ronaldus de Boer, for example.

[ursus arctos]

[URL]https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1087835833057587203?s=21[/URL]

[Tubby Isaacs]

That's been flagged up for a while.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ts-hard-brexit

Interestingly, the current government position was seen as a way to head off the problem.

Former cabinet ministers Greening, Rudd and Damian Green went to No 10 last week in an attempt to persuade May to back a position that would unite most of the party around a compromise, which could see Britain stay inside a customs union with the EU for years after the transition period ends in 2021.

This doesn't seem to have worked all that well, but I suppose they might get a few back if the EU deal goes through.

[sw2borshch]

We've just had a copy of Weatherspoon News delivered by the postwoman. Not including the cover, there's eleven pages of Brexit features inside.

[Eggchaser]

One of the things to file under, "Modern life is rubbish" is that the TV coverage doesn't give a player's full initials anymore.

G M M L Verhofstadt 57*

[Nocturnal Submission]

It's a Catholic thing in a lot of countries, and especially in the Low Countries. Going as far as Verhofstadt's name is something of a giveaway that he's from a bourgeois, semi-religious family - Papa Verhofstadt was a lawyer for a liberal trade union. But it's common. In the Netherlands, more people stick to Maria, but not always: Aloysius Paulus Maria van Gaal, Dennis Nicolaas Maria Bergkamp, Franciscus Cornelis Gerardus Maria Timmermans, Hubertus Jozef Margaretha Stevens.

In a related development, vaguely Latin-y sounding names is a good sign that the Dutchman in question is a Catholic, or at least from a traditionally Catholic family (seeing as nobody goes to Mass anymore). Franciscus and Ronaldus de Boer, for example.

Thanks, (and to Ursus too). Interesting stuff. I have some Dutch family but wasn't aware of the above. Then again, seeing as one of the chosen given names was Bruce, I'm guessing that they're not great traditionalists.

[Flynnie]

Bruce is an outstanding name, so I can see why they would choose that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1088062959493005312

[Nefertiti2]

[URL]https://twitter.com/rodneyedwards/status/1087977557486641154?s=21[/URL]

laura Kuennsberg tweeted this some hours later without crediting the journalist who broke the story.

[Diable Rouge]

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1088062959493005312

He later claimed that the UK, Ireland, Sweden and Malta had never been invaded.

[Tubby Isaacs]

He was misquoted, I think. Said last 100 years. Those some might disagree with his assessment of Ireland in that time.

[Tubby Isaacs]

https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1088058967572520961

[Etienne]

I feel relieved that he's no longer my MP. I've got the equally ludicrous Owen Paterson now.

[jameswba]

You could move down the road to Telford and land yourself wth Lucy Allen. She might just be the worst of the three of them, and that really is saying something.

[Duncan Gardner]

My weekend in Shropshire was long enough to hear plenty detail of Philip Dunne (Ludlow) and his gobshiteness. Have we missed anyone?

[Tubby Isaacs]

My parents have Bungalow Bill Wiggin in North Herefordshire. Not as high profile as some of the gobshites, but a very hard Brexiter. My sister has another one, Mark Harper, in Forest of Dean down the road.

[jameswba]

Mark Pritchard in the Wrekin. Another dickhead.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Pritchard voted Remain, to general astonishment. Reverted to type by voting against May's deal.

[Flynnie]

I think Aaron Bastani gets a bit of a raw deal here, even if I don’t agree with everything he says. In a related development, I quit Twitter several months ago.

But Christ, he came out with a whopper on one of Novara’s shows last night. When discussing the Stephen Bush piece on backbencher Tories alerting their local parties that a GE might be coming, he said Labour’s manifesto commitment should be to negotiate a better Brexit deal and then put it to a referendum.... vs “Go back and renegotiate”. Not Remain, not even no deal. Just go back to the bargaining table. All on the basis of moving beyond Brexit.

I can certainly accept the idea a People’s Vote is a metropolitan middle-class fantasy with not a great deal of support outside of London and university towns, and people should just accept the option of Norway/EEA as the best they can get for now. I can certainly accept that honouring the referendum would be good for democracy, although let’s be blunt, if the vox pops are reliable it seems a lot of people who would be betrayed to nothing by the UK revoking A50 aren’t Labour voters anyway.

But not having the confidence to back that up by saying “here’s our position, we will vote this through Parliament and amscray if you don’t like it” and putting it to a public vote seems insane. Of COURSE the “EU till I die” crowd will vote No, and the “no deal till I die” crowd will vote No too. We’d just subject ourselves to even more of this shit. Blimey.

[Flynnie]

Does my phone have no ability to add an apostrophe or quotation marks?

[ursus arctos]

I see them.

It seems to be a display issue on certain phone/browser combinations.

[Aitch]

Thanks, (and to Ursus too). Interesting stuff. I have some Dutch family but wasn't aware of the above. Then again, seeing as one of the chosen given names was Bruce, I'm guessing that they're not great traditionalists.

You see birth notices in the papers here saying things like, "We are pleased to announce the arrival of Jacobus Johannus Maria Ludovicus Smit, we are going to call him 'Billy'."

[Simon G]

My parents have Bungalow Bill Wiggin in North Herefordshire. Not as high profile as some of the gobshites, but a very hard Brexiter. My sister has another one, Mark Harper, in Forest of Dean down the road.

My in-laws are Foresters and are stuck with Mark Harper. I have Laurence Robertson - been MP for Tewkesbury since 1997. Whenever I've had the misfortune to hear him on Radio Gloucestershire he comes across as the stereotypical Tory. A quick scan of his Wiki page confirms that he is everything you come to expect of the stereotypical Tory MP, including but not limited to:

- Criticising plans to overhaul MP's expenses
- Voting against Equal Pay Transparency
- Opposing the Good Friday agreement

And so on.

In 2017 this guy's majority actually increased!

[Tubby Isaacs]

people should just accept the option of Norway/EEA as the best they can get for now

I'd settle for that, but that's the future relationship. Not really a big problem voting for May's deal to get that.