The Brexit Thread

[Nefertiti2]

it's interesting that the football audience, largely white, working or lower middle class men is in the main very pro Brexit. that Doncaster vote is heartening. Is that a Labour area? the influence of Ed Miliband?

[ad hoc]

This is superb

Stephen Rea reads the poem "Hard Border" by Clare Dwyer Hogg. Highly recommended.

"..nobody thought that dismantling the barricades like a jigsaw bit by bit was a temporary measure..we thought the concrete was broken down old wood burnt weapons beat into ploughs...we hoped that by digging out old roots, the grass would grow over lines drawn in war rooms ...none of us thought that this would be swift that tensions would lift overnight......we live here and we're holding our breath again..."

[Me Old Flower]

it's interesting that the football audience, largely white, working or lower middle class men is in the main very pro Brexit. that Doncaster vote is heartening. Is that a Labour area? the influence of Ed Miliband?

All three of Doncaster's constituencies are Labour: Rosie Winterton (Central), Ed Miliband (North) and Caroline Flint (Don Valley). The town has reshaped itself as a centre for distribution, with the Robin Hood Airport and the Railport all close by, so Brexit would hit the area hard.

Doncaster did vote overwhelmingly in favour of leave, so it might be a sign that some people are changing their minds.

[Satchmo Distel]

Would it be in the DUP's interest to trigger an election that might deliver a Hard Brexit, or do they gamble on the clock running down?

[Duncan Gardner]

@Satch: I think they'd prefer the latter. There's effectively a fixed upper limit to the number of seats they can win (11- one more than at present). But obviously there's a much greater range in how far short or ahead the Tories or Labour are of an overall majority, and thus unpredictability in how much influence the DUP might have

@AdHoc: there are already permanent and long-term barricades in NI, most obviously in Belfast's north inner city. They've been there for decades. Overall their number and scale aren't falling significantly

@Gonzo/ George C: is the dumping of NI that you think such a pity the same inevitable process that you've been enthusing about for the last 20/ 30/ 40 years?

@Nef: as Diable suggests the NI Green Party doesn't want a turbulent border poll now and will likely offer a free vote when there is one. As you probably know the party is a constituent part of its Southern neighbor, but has merely common aims with England, Wales and Scotland

@Berba: I haven't forgotten the backstop or a possible further referendum, just thinking of the (even) bigger picture, ie future end of NI. The whole mess there has always been partly your problem. How could it be otherwise given that you're next door and have an enduring foundation myth etc etc

[Satchmo Distel]

Fair point. Their entire bargaining position rests on a hung Parliament. I was just thinking that a GE might increase the number of No Deal Tory MPs relative to Remainers and May's Deal MPs.

In addition, a 2nd referendum looks increasingly to favour Hard Brexit, although there's still the huge doubt that a fair question can be framed, and the timescale to set one up is way too long if the govt is to be believed.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Melanie Onn, MP for Great Grimsby, has produced a Wilsonian 14 points about how she can't vote for a referendum. Understandable in her constituency, and she's right about the risks. But Grimsby is in a lot of shit if it's not in the Single Market.

[Nefertiti2]

Melanie Onn, MP for Great Grimsby, has produced a Wilsonian 14 points about how she can't vote for a referendum. Understandable in her constituency, and she's right about the risks. But Grimsby is in a lot of shit if it's not in the Single Market.

Grimsby’s in a lot of shit anyway

[George C.]

@Satch: I think they'd prefer the latter. There's effectively a fixed upper limit to the number of seats they can win (11- one more than at present). But obviously there's a much greater range in how far short or ahead the Tories or Labour are of an overall majority, and thus unpredictability in how much influence the DUP might have

@AdHoc: there are already permanent and long-term barricades in NI, most obviously in Belfast's north inner city. They've been there for decades. Overall their number and scale aren't falling significantly

@Gonzo/ George C: is the dumping of NI that you think such a pity the same inevitable process that you've been enthusing about for the last 20/ 30/ 40 years?

No idea what you're on about. Haven't especially enthused about anything, though I would like to see a united Ireland. And an independent Scotland.
Why not?

And who is Gonzo?

[Tubby Isaacs]

The seafood trade group a while ago lobbied for Grimsby to get a special exemption to stay in the Single Market. Grimsby now will look like the teddy bears picnic if they leave.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Reading someones' commentary on Twitter so apologies if I've got it wrong but apparently the Grieve amendment allows for six days of debates and votes, with the last being 26 March. If no deal by the end of 26 March MPs get to table a last minute amendment demanding an Article 50 extension - commentator says "if agreed the Government would be under huge pressure to act". So on the Tuesday evening (and possibly up to the Thursday) we won't know whether or not the UK will be in the EU on the Friday?

It really is all a game for them isn't it?

[Moonlight Shadow]

Rees-Moog informed us on Twitter than the British are made of stern stuff and do not fear No Deal. A man whose entire life has been one of opulence and entitlement with no understanding of anything approaching hardship...

[ad hoc]

@AdHoc: there are already permanent and long-term barricades in NI, most obviously in Belfast's north inner city. They've been there for decades. Overall their number and scale aren't falling significantly

I'm sure you're right but the poem is about the border. Barricades in N Belfast are not the border

[Nefertiti2]

I was thinking less of the policy of the Green Party in Northern Ireland and more of the U.K. Green Party to Northern Ireland

[Duncan Gardner]

@Nef- right, with you now. In practice they're the same thing. E, W, S leave NI to speak for itself



@AH. I read that poem as being about the NI conflict/ divide generally, not just the physical checkpoint at some rural stream bridge or other. In which case it's misleading as I said

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Surely they all just support the Good Friday Agreement? It's exactly the sort of devolved Govt thingy that the European Greens are fond of.

[Snake Plissken]

Melanie Onn, MP for Great Grimsby, has produced a Wilsonian 14 points about how she can't vote for a referendum. Understandable in her constituency, and she's right about the risks. But Grimsby is in a lot of shit if it's not in the Single Market.

Why are you singling out her when Matin Vickers MP (Cleethorpes) has been banging the Brexit drum loudly and locally for the last seven years?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Why are you singling out her when Matin Vickers MP (Cleethorpes) has been banging the Brexit drum loudly and locally for the last seven years?

Well, she's on the Labour frontbench so it's significant she won't back a referendum. I said I saw her point, and I think she's OK, certainly not a Flint. To her credit, she's not raised false hopes. I reckon she'd bite your hand off for proper "Norway" to protect fish processing jobs. And I'd bite your hand off too, considering where we are.

You can safely assume I think Martin Vickers is atrocious.

[Duncan Gardner]

Surely they all just support the Good Friday Agreement? It's exactly the sort of devolved Govt thingy that the European Greens are fond of.

Apart from not being devolved nor governing anything, you mean?

[George C.]

Reading someones' commentary on Twitter so apologies if I've got it wrong but apparently the Grieve amendment allows for six days of debates and votes, with the last being 26 March. If no deal by the end of 26 March MPs get to table a last minute amendment demanding an Article 50 extension - commentator says "if agreed the Government would be under huge pressure to act". So on the Tuesday evening (and possibly up to the Thursday) we won't know whether or not the UK will be in the EU on the Friday?

It really is all a game for them isn't it?

Ain't that the truth.

Ridiculous.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Yeah. but it turns out that this is what the DUP want.. But in theory it's what they would like. Also it leaves the future of NI in the hands of the people of NI.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Tory MP taking back Parliamentary control and ceding it to Poland.

https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1087691731095699456

[Tubby Isaacs]

Global Britain latest.

https://twitter.com/WiegandEU/status/1087405602106679301

[E10 Rifle]

"Tory MP taking back Parliamentary control and ceding it to Poland."

Bloody Poles, staying over there and writing our laws

[Diable Rouge]

Statement of the obvious about the Border, but still making headlines:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...er-eu-confirms