The Brexit Thread

[Nefertiti2]

What's misleading about "free market think tank" though? Who hears that and doesn't think "creepy McWhirterish cranks"?

That's new, though, Lucy. Since last week or thereabouts.

[Lucy Waterman]

Well, of course not. As I implied, they like their jobs.

[Nefertiti2]

You can complain. If she said the Conservatives would be failing the country by allowing Jeremy Corbyn to become PM, that seems to me an instance of personal opinion coming into her coverage, and she should either apologise or be removed.

I have complained. many times. the complaints are outsourced to capita. they have no interest in responding to the facts of the complaint.

[Lucy Waterman]

Pimhole.

[Nefertiti2]

Well, of course not. As I implied, they like their jobs.

So you still consider "left wing" an organisation where people don't dare speak out about a senior male journalist insulting a woman online.

When Women journalists expressed an opinion about the gender pay division in the BBC they were kept off the air.

Andrew Neil carries on regardless, wearing his Adam Smith Insititute tie and hosting an event for an Orban Think tanks.

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/987271235687145472

[Lucy Waterman]

Oh. I thought you meant they should take a stand about him being right wing. I expect he gets a lot of internal complaints, I don't know (in the bureaucratic rather than physical sense, but hopefully that too). People not wanting to complain about influential colleagues is not a problem unique to the BBC.

The Carrie Gracie thing was fucking vile, but not I think a right wing bias issue.

[Snake Plissken]

What's misleading about "free market think tank" though? Who hears that and doesn't think "creepy McWhirterish cranks"?

Because as the article says, they don’t have to declare their affiliation to the Tories unlike Left leaning equivalents.

The same way that Owen Jones is often introduced as “Guardian columnist” but Isabel Oakeshott is never “former Political Editor of the Daily Mail”.

[Nefertiti2]

of course most people in most areas of the BBC certainly in Drama Comedy are on the left. But Politics is rather different. Both Robbie Gibb and Guto hari left to work for the Conservative party. The BBC Overton Window has shifted a great deal since Tony Hall and James Harding arrived

[Lucy Waterman]

I don't remember that one on Play School.

[Benjm]

I think there's a lot of merit in what you're saying, but I think there's a fundamental difference between seeing the BBC as having issues with overcompensating for bias, and seeing it as a Tory front organisation. I don't think Nefertiti2 wants the BBC to be balanced politically, he wants everyone with a right wing (or possibly even centre left) point of view not to be employed by the Corporation.

It's not just whether they have a point of view, it's whether it interferes with their ability or willingness to at least try to be impartial in their jobs. Neil and Humphrys seem to benefit from being big names in the star system and because their general rudeness acts as a fig leaf for their biases. There are probably just as strong reasons to get rid of them because of their shortcomings as broadcasters; are they really as valued by audiences as the Corporation seems to think?

[Lucy Waterman]

Because as the article says, they don’t have to declare their affiliation to the Tories unlike Left leaning equivalents.

The same way that Owen Jones is often introduced as “Guardian columnist” but Isabel Oakeshott is never “former Political Editor of the Daily Mail”.

Ah, OK. The first one seems dodgy to me, your second one less so. If people are being introduced by their current roles, that seems reasonable. You can smear all sorts of people, right and left, by choosing which of their former jobs to talk about.

[Lucy Waterman]

It's not just whether they have a point of view, it's whether it interferes with their ability or willingness to at least try to be impartial in their jobs. Neil and Humphrys seem to benefit from being big names in the star system and because their general rudeness acts as a fig leaf for their biases. There are probably just as strong reasons to get rid of them because of their shortcomings as broadcasters; are they really as valued by audiences as the Corporation seems to think?

Well, they should certainly get rid of Humphreys. With Neil, they need a prominent right winger - keep hold of nurse would be my thinking on that one.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Per Tim O'Connor, Corbyn said to Sophie Ridge there'd be no problem negotiating a new agreement after May's government fell because there's "three months". The problem is the three months come under the withdrawal agreement he's said he won't vote for. So that time wouldn't exist.

He probably would get an Article 50 extension if he came to power. The trouble is that the EU probably doesn't see May falling. Are they going to be explicit and talk about extending Article 50, when all it's going to do is give Gove and pals time to fuck them about?

Its not a great position.

[Nefertiti2]

There are a number of glaring problems with the BBC news. Recently - the refusal to report the OXFord BMJ study that 10000 deaths could be put down to austerity. The minimal coverage of the UN rapporteur's report. How they report Palestine. How they reported Chalcot. The reporting of Brexit entirely for what it means for the Conservative aParty. The refusal to challenge Brexiteers on what they said before the referendum. The refusal to ask Theresa May why suddenly a bad deal is better than no deal after sending the last two years telling us exactly the reverse. The reporting of Brexit entirely in terms of Conservative party Gossip Referring to the Former Foreign Secretary (and only him) by his first name.

I'm sure others can add to the list- meanwhile here's the late Mark Fisher on This Week

https://twitter.com/HealthUntoDeath/status/1063930486245023745

[Diable Rouge]

http://twitter.com/GuitarMoog/status/1064278229970796545

[Nefertiti2]

I think there's a lot of merit in what you're saying, but I think there's a fundamental difference between seeing the BBC as having issues with overcompensating for bias, and seeing it as a Tory front organisation. I don't think Nefertiti2 wants the BBC to be balanced politically, he wants everyone with a right wing (or possibly even centre left) point of view not to be employed by the Corporation.

Firstly I think decent journalists should be able to separate out their politics from their reporting. Someone who generally does it reasonably well is Nick Robinson- though with him its a huge problem that he studied PPE and was in the Oxford university Conservative Association with about half the Tory cabinet, so he's just matier with Jeremy hunt and co. But he doesn't flaunt his current political views in the way that Neil or Humphrys do (in England anyway).

But the BBC responded terribly to Corbyn being elected Leader of the Labour Party. When Thatcher was elected leader of the Tories they didn't treat her as an interloper who had no right to be there. They adapted. When Corbyn was elected leader they failed to adapt. Leader of the Opposition is a formal position in the British democratic system which should be accorded some respect.. The BBC failed to do that.

[Lucy Waterman]

I don't think you're right about Thatcher. Look back at any of Robin Day's interviews with her. He treated her consistently with utter overt contempt. Which is funny and from my point of view, why not - but you can see why the Tories hated the Beeb in the 80s even more than they do today.

It's impossible to imagine even Andrew Neil being as rude to Corbyn as Day always was to Thatcher.

Leader of the Opposition is a formal position in the British democratic system which should be accorded some respect.. The BBC failed to do that.

IDS and Hague also felt they were not taken seriously by the BBC, if I remember correctly.

[Nefertiti2]

I disagree. No interrupting. you have to skip the first 2 minutes or so, No "answer the question" very different times.

[Lucy Waterman]

It does seem to be as I remember. Little eye contact, every word dripping with contempt. May have been cos she was a woman rather than a Tory. No interrupting that I've seen, you're right.

edit - actually, later on he starts talking over her loads, and looking at her even less. Whatever was on his right thigh must have been fascinating.

[ad hoc]

I think Nef is right. I don't doubt that the majority of the BBC's employees are left of centre (I don't know any, but they are disproportionately middle class people from London, which would tend to be a centre/centre left demographic). But the editorial line of BBC News is right wing on most subjects. Look at climate change, look at austerity, look at Brexit. On Israel Palestine it's not simply a right wing line it's actively racist.

[Snake Plissken]

Ah, OK. The first one seems dodgy to me, your second one less so. If people are being introduced by their current roles, that seems reasonable. You can smear all sorts of people, right and left, by choosing which of their former jobs to talk about.

Cool. I look forward to Alistair Campbell no longer being introduced as “former Labour spin-doctor to Tony Blair “ and the aforementioned Ms Oakeshott to start being introduced as “current spin doctor for Aaron Banks”.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

I think Nef is right. I don't doubt that the majority of the BBC's employees are left of centre (I don't know any, but they are disproportionately middle class people from London, which would tend to be a centre/centre left demographic). But the editorial line of BBC News is right wing on most subjects. Look at climate change, look at austerity, look at Brexit. On Israel Palestine it's not simply a right wing line it's actively racist.

As an aside, a story broke over the weekend that a large number of BBC presenters are under an HMRC investigation into tax avoidance, having utilised the kind of scheme Rooney and Gary Barlow got into. One Yorkshire local newsreader apparently owes £420k. How much do they pay the buggers?

[Sporting]

The BBC is clearly to my mind both strongly pro-Conservative and pro-Brexit.

The employment of a Conservative newspaper editor to run the Today programme. The retention of John Humphrys despite his repeated articulation of pro Brexit views, The Numberof appearances of Farage on Question Time (and the fact that no Euro MP who supported the European Union has ever appeared on the programme) and the regular pro Tory majority. Andrew Neil allowed to chair the Spectator and do gigs for the Hungarian embassy for Viktor Orban and tweet abuse at Carole Cadwalladr. The persistent anti Corbyn Framing David Dimbleby cackling on the most recent edition of Question Time (where the Conservative Mp was allowed to call Corbyn an antisemite) at the idea that Corbyn should meet the Queen and ask to form a Government. The revolving door between BBC Politics and The Conservative Party . keeping the reporting of the Labour anti semitism "scandal in the news for three months. I could go on...

Andrew Marr and Chakrabarti today was just the latest example.

I thought this was very poor interviewing in general. One thing is putting politicians on the spot. Another is hardly seeming to listen to the answers and constantly interrupting.

[Lucy Waterman]

As an aside, a story broke over the weekend that a large number of BBC presenters are under an HMRC investigation into tax avoidance, having utilised the kind of scheme Rooney and Gary Barlow got into. One Yorkshire local newsreader apparently owes £420k. How much do they pay the buggers?

I'm guessing that's over ten years plus interest, but even still.

[Nefertiti2]

Come one Lucy you know better than to go with the Overpaid BBC employees story. Lots of people were forced to go "freelance" and were still eligible for tax -