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    A must-watch: this brilliant lecture from the excellent Professor Vernon Bogdanor:

    Britain and Europe, One Year On

    (on podcast for another 4 weeks but you can watch/record it tonight on the BBC Parliament Channel, 22:50 GMT)

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      Also, while I’m at it, this informative R4 programme on Farming and Brexit (on podcast for another 4 weeks).

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tvjqz


      [The blurb: Seasonal and migrant workers

      With a BBC survey of British growers revealing a shortage of seasonal workers and over 70% saying they would reduce their UK operations if access to key labour markets is restricted in future, Sybil Ruscoe asks what this means for agriculture. She rounds up the picture in horticulture using expert opinion from growers, recruitment consultants and of course the workers themselves, and Ben Rogaley from the University of Sussex explains why changes to the production process makes it more difficult for UK workers to do these jobs.

      But it isn't just horticulture that relies on non-UK workers - the dairy industry also employs many of its skilled workers from across the EU. From Mike King's dairy farm in South Gloucestershire Sybil meets Diana and Mirek, both of whom have forged successful careers and lives in Britain. Diana is from Latvia and is a trained nurse but has taken to farming and now enjoys her work as a relief milker. Mirek is from a farming family in Poland and says that Brexit hasn't affected how he feels about working in the UK. Mike explains that a recent survey from the Royal Association of British Dairy Farmers, the organisation he Chairs, reveals that the dairy industry is failing to attract sufficient numbers of UK workers which is why he's had to look further afield to fill the gaps.
      ]

      Comment


        Originally posted by Kev7 View Post
        A must-watch: this brilliant lecture from the excellent Professor Vernon Bogdanor:

        Britain and Europe, One Year On

        (on podcast for another 4 weeks but you can watch/record it tonight on the BBC Parliament Channel, 22:50 GMT)
        Going to record that, cheers for the tip Kev.

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          The Aussies get it about right

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            David Davis in the Andrew Marr show (at 9’20):

            Marr: Michel Barnier […], what is he like and how are you getting on?

            Davis: Well, he is very French.


            Hmm, not sure that was meant as a compliment...

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              The 'Aggressive Brexiteer': Would I still vote Leave? (BBC link)


              Mr Austin lives in North Yorkshire and runs an interior fitting-out business. He has spent 36 years working in the construction industry around the world.

              "I was quite an aggressive Brexiteer and my friends were probably sick to the stomach of me trying to persuade them all to vote Leave," he said.

              "I wanted limited immigration, not a ban, because I feel that it's totally uncontrolled.

              "I'm also still concerned about taxation and VAT. I think the payments we make are very high and that money is going to other countries when it could be used better here."
              However, Mr Austin says that on recent trips to the EU he has started to pay more attention to the immigration queue for non-EU passport holders - and is already starting to feel that he is becoming an outsider.

              "I think other Europeans are starting to look at us as if we're a bit different and I've now started to back-pedal a bit on how I think about things," he explained.

              "I have ended up with more questions than before the referendum."

              As well as the continuing political conversations around Brexit, Mr Austin said recent news events had played a significant role in him moving from a clear Leave stance to one where he was less certain. The recent news story about about baby Charlie Gard and the decisions about his continuing treatment had a powerful impact on him.

              "I was quite upset by it and I'm glad his parents were able to get access to the European Court of Human Rights so he can be kept on life support until another group of experts have had time to look at his case," he added.

              "But I wonder now about what this means when we leave and if it means that other real people won't be able to have one more throw of the dice to have their case heard.

              "I'm not saying that had the court not been available judgements would have been unjust, but they would have been unfair because they lost that extra level of consideration."

              Another key factor behind Mr Austin's decision to vote Leave was his belief in the potential for the UK to expand its trading base around the world and access more competitive markets.
              However, Mr Austin says that since the Grenfell Tower fire last week he now has concerns about how rigorous quality checks will be post-Brexit for imported goods.

              "It's made me wonder about the sort of building materials that might be able to come into the country that might not have been tested properly or as well as things are now.

              "At the moment we have the European kite mark which means the goods we buy are strongly and intensively vetted and tested.


              "I still want more aggressive trading around the world but I'm also starting to think that maybe 40 years of working together to do all this in terms of quality control might be wasted."


              Fucking classic.

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                EU citizens in the UK would have to apply for an ID card - because Brussels will definitely sign off on that!

                https://amp.theguardian.com/politics...d-after-brexit

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                  Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
                  EU citizens in the UK would have to apply for an ID card - because Brussels will definitely sign off on that!

                  https://amp.theguardian.com/politics...d-after-brexit
                  Well, as an EU citizen, when I moved to Belgium I also had to apply for and pay for an ID card.

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                    You don't have to according to EU law.

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                      Originally posted by antoine polus View Post
                      You don't have to according to EU law.
                      But then the Belgian government will make it nigh-on impossible for me to communicate with them on all kinds of matters. I wondered about the legality of this, but lacked the time and energy to go into a legal battle over this sort of thing.

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                        If the Belgian Govt inflict this on their own citizens, they'd be within their rights to demand the same of EU citizens resident, non/nee/nein?

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                          Id will likely be like the one you get when you have indefinite leave to remain, i am about to apply for one, at 230 quid cost. I was granted that, for free back in the days, before Switz bilateral FoM agreement with the EU came into place. Back then, all that was needed was a stamp in your passport. The UK proposal does not concern EEA and Swiss citizens, separated agreements will have to be negotiated.

                          One good outcome of today has been the end of the compulsory sickness insurance obligation. The streamlining and usage of HMRC data for new applications when in place ought to help. Lots which leaves to be desired mind, no surprise the EU has not been impressed. UK citizens in EU have been offered a better deal by EU. It's going to be a hard negotiation....

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                            Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                            If the Belgian Govt inflict this on their own citizens, they'd be within their rights to demand the same of EU citizens resident, non/nee/nein?
                            The Belgian government can require their own citizens to have ID when dealing with authorities. However, according to EU law, an identity card or passport from any EU country is the only required ID in any other EU country.

                            The Swedes also wanted me to shell out 50 euro for a Swedish ID card when I arrived in Sweden. It took three banks before I could find a bank that would let me open an account without a Swedish ID card.

                            The EU commission are constantly giving Sweden shit about it.

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                              BBC quoting a former David Davis aide that Davis was/is hamstrung by May digging in on various negotiating points, including that Davis (along with other Cabinet ministers) had been pushing continued membership of Euratom but May refused due to her 'absolutionist' approach of not wanting the ECJ involved in anything at all.

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                                Reality beginning to dawn on Davis then and the excuses begin.

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                                  The Swedes also wanted me to shell out 50 euro for a Swedish ID card when I arrived in Sweden. It took three banks before I could find a bank that would let me open an account without a Swedish ID card.

                                  The EU commission are constantly giving Sweden shit about it.


                                  Took me six months to open my first bank account in Ireland as a dirty Brit. Had to keep money in my room/in the safe in work. My work couldn't ever write a letter that would satisfy the banks (English HQ company). Apparently they'd just tightened up after AIB was hit by some Romanian fraud ring. Hmm. But I was an EU citizen, and Romanians weren't at the time.
                                  Last edited by Lang Spoon; 01-07-2017, 02:17.

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                                    Irish banking regulations are appalling leading to cultures of excessive and deliberate laxness, followed by some appalling disaster/sting, whereby the entire corporate culture wildly swings to the other extreme, with bizarre consequences. But the underlying regulations don't change or adapt. it's something with real economic costs as can be seen by the selling of about 30 mortgages in total between 2009-14.

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                                      Kier Starmer, the cosmopolitan liberal frontman for Hard Brexit, is taking a hammering on Twitter for Labour's Brexit position.

                                      "Jobs Brexit" as it stands is basically bullshit. As opposed to what?
                                      Last edited by Tubby Isaacs; 01-07-2017, 11:41.

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                                        No jobs Brexit

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                                          Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
                                          EU citizens in the UK would have to apply for an ID card - because Brussels will definitely sign off on that!

                                          https://amp.theguardian.com/politics...d-after-brexit
                                          I don't understand how asking only a proportion of the population to have an ID card on them at all times works in practice. Does that mean that British citizens will also be asked to show their papers every time they go to the hospital/access public services/apply for a job etc.? Or are the staff at those places supposed to only ask to see papers when people have a funny name/face/accent? It seems ripe for discrimination.

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                                            Apartheid Brexit.

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                                              Already seen an advert for a job requesting permanent residence rights in the UK, the id card will be there to confirm immigration status in UK.

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                                                Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                                No jobs Brexit
                                                You might not be wrong. I'm sure the Tory Brexit will be incredibly grim, but it's kind of got of a logic to it- we've just left our biggest market, so tax and spending cuts for businesses to make up for that. I don't know how leaving your biggest market and then raising taxes and costs works.

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                                                  Originally posted by MoonlightShadow View Post
                                                  Already seen an advert for a job requesting permanent residence rights in the UK, the id card will be there to confirm immigration status in UK.
                                                  But if you're British, how do you prove you're legally residing in the UK, other than by having to show your passport/birth certificate? And if you don't have one, then what?

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                                                    Not allowing EU citizens settled in the UK to bring a spouse (unless they meet an income threshold) seems mean and nasty, like the old restrictions on spouses in the Commonwealth immigration and nationality acts of 1962-81. In fact, the income threshold hints at race and class discrimination by stealth.

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