The Brexit Thread

[Tubby Isaacs]

My feeling with Corbyn is not just that he thinks there are other things to deal with, but he thinks that those things are much more important than Brexit. He appears to have the attitude that we don't have a massive issue going on. That it's a frivolour distraction, a frippery that is only obsessed over by racists on one side, and the metropolitan elite on the other.

Most of us on here think it's the most important issue of the day, and it's looks like his reaction is "Meh. Whatever. Let's try and not upset anyone too much when we can focus on things that really matter like parking fees at hospitals."

"The real issues", indeed.

[Lang Spoon]

He’s a nice guy, but not the brightest. And his team seem utter shitbags on Europe. I think their only meaningful contacts within the European left are the far left grandstanders and eejits like PbP in Ireland, a lot of what such yokes talk on Europe is utter shite (interspersed with neo-Liberal every two minutes)

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

TAB, is any of that - like those figures that you quoted pages back, which when challenged you changed from 'will' to 'could be', or something - in any way a slight, possible exaggeration? Or is it absolutely nailed on, all of it? And does it apply to 'the', or just 'a', Customs Union? Your a brilliant analyst of all this stuff, so I mean no disrespect. It's just that there's a lot of hyperbole round this - as I mentioned before, I see a lot of the FBPE-ers on Twitter, who today have been following up a Corbyn tweet about the Guatamalan volcano with 'but Brexit will be worse', so maybe I'm just mixed up about what's actually going to happen, and when.

If Corbyn is a Legatum plant, so is Starmer. Sounds implausible to me.

Well..... leaving the single market, means that the UK is going to lose almost its entire services export industry, and all of the european headquarters that fill up the City of london, so your tax base is going to collapse, Unemployment will sharply rise, because each services export job supports a multiple of other people in a wide variety of role. If you leave the customs union, aside from the collapse of much of UK manufacturing, then your ports will collapse. The idea of suddenly checking the millions of lorries entering and leaving the UK is utter madness.

The Trade levels underpinning the operation of the Current UK economy could never have risen to the level they have, without a relaxation of customs. You simply can't go back.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Actually, on reflection, I don't think the European Court of Justice redline has gone. "Institutions" can mean stuff on air travel etc.

So I'm not encouraged. Though some prominent Remainers are, and they aren't Corbyn fans.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Gordo has been speaking about "addressinf concerns" today. Apart from a nonsense about removing people who've been here for 9 months without working, I think it's existing powers stuff.

But apart from one thing (a fund to address short term impacts, which the Coalition scrapped) hard for him to answer why he didn't do it if it made a difference.

I think silence would have been better.

[johnr]

Tubbs - TAB too? - what do you think of this point, and the subsequent thread https://twitter.com/joncstone/status...67877186568194
If he's correct, do you still think EEA is the best option?

[Moonlight Shadow]

My feeling with Corbyn is not just that he thinks there are other things to deal with, but he thinks that those things are much more important than Brexit. He appears to have the attitude that we don't have a massive issue going on. That it's a frivolour distraction, a frippery that is only obsessed over by racists on one side, and the metropolitan elite on the other.

Most of us on here think it's the most important issue of the day, and it's looks like his reaction is "Meh. Whatever. Let's try and not upset anyone too much when we can focus on things that really matter like parking fees at hospitals."

Correct, the man vision is perfectly on tune with the Tories ERG brigade, Brexit is a palaver to go through before the real job of rebuilding the country. Historians will have harsh words for those people....

[Tubby Isaacs]

Tubbs - TAB too? - what do you think of this point, and the subsequent thread https://twitter.com/joncstone/status...67877186568194
If he's correct, do you still think EEA is the best option?

I agree with Steve Peers there. EEA with customs protocol added. Think EU (and EFTA) would be happy.

[Diable Rouge]

I agree with Steve Peers there. EEA with customs protocol added. Think EU (and EFTA) would be happy.

Also fits in with the Barnier negotiating position.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/Petercampbell1/status/1004088667604967431

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1004040755550281730

[johnr]

Fuck me. What a fucking moron. There's no other word for it. It's far too late in the day for this sort of fucking bollocks.

Starmer thinks otherwise https://twitter.com/AndrewSparrow/st...89457149939713

[Nefertiti2]

Some Very good points being made by Adam Bienkov currently on Corbyn and Brexit and some of his Labour critics

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1004315042895089669

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1004315552666570753

[Diable Rouge]

Starmer thinks otherwise https://twitter.com/AndrewSparrow/st...89457149939713

The acid tests for that, of course, will be the Border and trade barriers - if the effective result is BINO, Ireland can approve.

[Diable Rouge]

Meanwhile, 12 Tory MPs propose the UK would join the EEA through EFTA, but of course, that would prohibit membership of a customs union.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Caroline Spelman now a Tory EEA rebel. Up to 12. Only 1 Scot so far. Not that we should assume they're different from English and (dear God) Welsh Tories. But they ought to get that up if they want to be coming back.

I'm a bit more optimistic today. Lords pinback again, and could be game on.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

The acid tests for that, of course, will be the Border and trade barriers - if the effective result is BINO, Ireland can approve.

BINO?

[Diable Rouge]

BINO?

Brexit In Name Only, where the only effective difference between now and 2019 will be the end of British MEPs.

[wittoner]

BINO would be Dandy.

[johnr]

Brilliant.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Don't see how that could happen. Unless you mean we'd also ignore any future amendments to EU law, except the ones we wanted to adopt. Which would effectively mean setting up a new parliamentary body in the UK specifically to debate which EU-led laws we did want to amend or adopt and why.

There's also the thorny problem of EU procurement regulations regarding tendering government contracts (which I believe is why, under all the Harry and St George huff and bluster, many Tory MPs and their donors want us out, so they stop losing contracts to the French etc).

[E10 Rifle]

I see a lot of the FBPE-ers on Twitter, who today have been following up a Corbyn tweet about the Guatamalan volcano with 'but Brexit will be worse'

Going back a bit, I saw some of that on the Twitters yesterday and it was embarrassingly hideous. Is there any way normal Remainers/Soft Brexiters can get their more histrionic fellow-travellers to STFU for a considerable period of time? Their ability to lose friends and influence no one, while remaining shrilly, smugly and self-righteously proud of the fact, is a total liability.

[Diable Rouge]

Don't see how that could happen. Unless you mean we'd also ignore any future amendments to EU law, except the ones we wanted to adopt. Which would effectively mean setting up a new parliamentary body in the UK specifically to debate which EU-led laws we did want to amend or adopt and why.

There's also the thorny problem of EU procurement regulations regarding tendering government contracts (which I believe is why, under all the Harry and St George huff and bluster, many Tory MPs and their donors want us out, so they stop losing contracts to the French etc).

Just meant Norway with a CU bolted on, if that helps.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Government adds extra day to debate Lords amendments.

[Diable Rouge]

Judging by DD's scattergun performance today, on course to resign tomorrow.