The Brexit Thread

[Snake Plissken]

We know. Everyone knows. It doesn't matter to them.

[Snake Plissken]

All you need to know about the mindset we are dealing with is that the Conservative Party are willing to destroy a large chunk of the City of London in order to get Brexit. That used to be the one thing you could count on the Tories, never, ever to do.

[Tubby Isaacs]

This is a bit of an odd assessment, I'd say. If you believe in all that parliament nonsense, you really should care about this stuff.

It's not just government that looks at the issues. Parliament can already get all the information it needs from other, likely better sources

I don't think what some civil servants have worked out is going to make that much difference, but I hope I'm wrong. Starmer's right to go for it, but we're about to miss the trade talks deadline, and he doesn't seem bothered with that. I get "keeping your powder dry" and all that, but it's literally 6 days till the deadline.

[Tubby Isaacs]

because Austerity has had and is having a massive effect on millions of people, including those Labour voters who voted Brexit. it has been an issue which has been massively neglected. Corbyn is the only person I think who could get those people to change their position on Brexit, and that will be at least partly because they believe in Labour's commitment to make their lives better, something that Labour has been unable to convince them of since, I don't know, Blair 's first term. There is a crisis in Housing, Wages, Employment Rights, Transport Health and so on. Doing something about austerity may get a change on Brexit- and desperately needs doing anyway. Neglecting austerity probably loses Brexit.

But there's a deadline in 6 days. That's likely a fall in the pound, and nearly everybody made poorer.

[Nefertiti2]

Corbyn can't be responsible for trying to maintain the value of the pound. His fight is to become prime minister and then he might have a chance to stop Brexit, ot at least take the reins out of those who control it currently And the rightwing fuckers are constantly on his case. There's a massive smear all over the front page of the Times.

This time it's smearing Momentum because people have been challenging councillors involved in the deeply unpopular Haringey Development Vehicle scam which will knock down council housing and make LendlEase very wealthy.

So which side are you, Tubby? There are only two.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm on the non-hard Brexit side. I know you are too, but we're taking a lot on trust at the moment. I'm not expecting every tweet on Brexit or anything, but I'd like some sense that the PM in waiting isn't happy with the trashing of our main ally.

At least the Priti Patel hard brexit stuff is a plan. Hard Brexit as a route to investment and socialism isn't.

[DCI Harry Batt]

It's not just government that looks at the issues. Parliament can already get all the information it needs from other, likely better sources

I'm sure. I don't get why you'd not care about the contempt of parliament, though.

[Nefertiti2]

TonTon's right. The people in Parliament care. There are several compelling reasons why it's a good issue to campaign on.

1) there's a good chance the Conservatives will be defeated - as they already have been.
2) it shows up the hypocrisy of the Brexit project to those who got involved on the basis of "taking back control"
3) it shows up the lack of preparedness for Brexit and the risk to jobs, which will be essential in winning popular support in fighting Brexit

[E10 Rifle]

I can't help feeling that the whole "blame Labour for Brexit" thing, that made numbers of people lose their shit and their perspective completely in the summer of 2016, is a little virus that occasionally Tubbs can't shake. The Tories have to own this mess, be totally identified with it, have all their divisions and contradictions on it given uncrowded space.

Particularly as we now appear to be entering a new and exciting era of anti-Irish racism. The absolute fucking state of this, from an associate editor at the Telegraph no less

[E10 Rifle]

All you need to know about the mindset we are dealing with is that the Conservative Party are willing to destroy a large chunk of the City of London in order to get Brexit

Don't worry. Morgan Stanley still think Corbyn is a bigger threat than Brexit, so all is right with the world. (They neglect, disappointingly, to talk us through their role in the financial crisis, which helped lead us here, but self-awareness is never a treasured quality in the square mile.

[Ginger Yellow]

Don't worry. Morgan Stanley still think Corbyn is a bigger threat than Brexit,

As I said a while back, this is pretty much universal in the City. Even among self-professed Labour voting types. Unsurprisingly, people who devote their careers to making money from money, and get rich in the process, don't tend to like socialism.

[E10 Rifle]

Yeah, which is why I tend not to run with the "Brexit must be bad because the City of London says so" line. People in the City of London want a lot of pretty bad things and have been known to make pretty bad judgment calls –*they're not the arbiters here. Brexit is bad for lots of more fundamental reasons than it interferes with some people's ability to make shitloads of money.

[Nefertiti2]

yes and maybe we should be pleased that a government that puts its citizens first may sometimes have to put the interests of the City of London second.

The first since, I don't know, Callaghan?

[Flynnie]

Well, they're not putting their citizens first. They're putting...fuck knows, really, first. Some will say the Mercer types, tax avoiders, etc., but there's more pathology than that to Brexit.

The citizenry hasn't usurped the City for the Tory Party, it's autoerotic asphyxiation with the Union Flag as the noose in front of a mirror while wearing a Rorke's Drift-themed gimp suit.

[Duncan Gardner]

Without wanting to take your fantasy too far- is an orange up the jaksie involved?

[Nefertiti2]

The citrus fruit usually goes in the mouth, Duncan.

Of course you many know of a different Orange Order...

[Duncan Gardner]

More detail than I needed yer maj ;}

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

suddenly jeffrey donaldson's expression and demeanour make more sense

[Snake Plissken]

NewOTF.

“Come for the red hot soccer chat, stay for the erotic imagery.”

[Diable Rouge]

At least the return to normality in Leinster House will allow Varadkar and Coveney to concentrate on Brussels for now.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm sure. I don't get why you'd not care about the contempt of parliament, though.

I do, but I don't think Corbyn or Starmer are going to do anything with the info if they get it. I'm delighted that the Government are likely going to look very bad.

The main thing I want to see is "This is what we'd do to get into trade talks". The citizens' rights is OK, but what about settling the bill or the border?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Ha ha ha.

Daniel HannanVerified account
@DanielJHannan
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Of all the scare stories propagated by EU supporters, the idea that the UK and Ireland would impose borders after 94 years is the silliest.
4:23 AM - 18 Nov 2015

[E10 Rifle]

This is like some sort of competition to see who's most likely to get 0/100 in the most basic test on Irish history isn't it?

[Tubby Isaacs]

0/100

Or a 2:1, as it seems to be called in History at Oxford.

Nef mentioned this essay/lecture by Ivan Rogers. It's well worth reading.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/p...tain-to-brexit

I read it as more sympathetic to Cameron than Nef did, I think. Maybe Rogers is being a bit careful in managing the impression that he was too Europhile.

[WOM]

All those in favour of Nef shortening his thread title to The Brexit Thread for the benefit of mobile users....AYE!