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    Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

    Berbaslug, those figures come from a report based on a voluntary survey filled in by Scottish businesses (response rate for the survey: 26% of the businesses contacted to be part of the sample, with huge variations across sectors.) The report includes the following warning about the reliability of the figures:
    Rest of the UK estimates

    Rest of the UK exports relate to trade from Scotland to England, Wales Northern Ireland or to oil and gas companies operating offshore, including in Scottish Adjacent Waters. As with international exports, it is possible that some exports to the rest of the UK are subsequently re-sold (or processed and then sold) by the initial buyer to an international destination. In such cases only the initial sale from Scotland is associated with Scotland.This is different from Scottish exports that are exported internationally via a port in the rest of the UK as these are counted as Scottish international exports.

    Exports to the rest of the UK relate to trade from Scotland to either England, Wales or Northern Ireland. These estimates should be treated with some caution. It is more difficult to ascertain the final destination of sales within the UK as companies have no statutory requirement to collate financial information below UK level. Furthermore, particular sectors face challenges in determining what constitutes an ‘export’. In an intra-UK situation, this is particularly the case in the service sector where output is more difficult to quantify and the residence of the final consumer may be less clear.

    In addition, users should note that in this publication and other Scottish Government statistics, figures for exports to the rest of the UK include sales of goods and services by onshore based businesses to oil and gas extraction companies operating in Scottish Adjacent Waters
    Nice to see the Brexit paper treating those estimates "with some caution" [/sarcasm]

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      Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

      Ginger Yellow wrote: This white paper is a joke. I mean, it always was going to be, given that the government's position is a joke, but it's literally just May's speech with some extra charts and some background colour on the status quo. There's nothing new whatsoever on what they want the end game to be, or how they plan to get there. And all that is there is vague and aspirational. Or an acknowledgement of how fucked we are.
      For example, we
      recognise the priority placed on easy access to healthcare by UK nationals living in the EU.
      We are also engaging closely with EU Member States, businesses and other organisations
      to ensure that we have a thorough understanding of issues concerning the status of EU
      nationals in the UK.
      6.4 The Government would have liked to resolve this issue ahead of the formal
      negotiations. And although many EU Member States favour such an agreement, this has not
      proven possible.
      Someone on Twitter has just discovered the date stamp left on the final version - 04.41 this morning.

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        Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

        8.25 In our new strategic partnership agreement we will be aiming for the freest possible trade in financial services between the UK and EU Member States.

        8.26 In highly integrated sectors such as financial services there will be a legitimate interest in mutual cooperation arrangements that recognise the interconnectedness of markets, as
        so clearly demonstrated by the financial crisis. Since that time, the EU has taken a number of steps to strengthen collective oversight of the sector. As the UK leaves the EU, we will seek to establish strong cooperative oversight arrangements with the EU and will continue to support and implement international standards to continue to safely serve the UK, European and global economy.
        "international standards"- ie EU standards, voluntarily.

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          Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

          But the White Paper is fine, it must be, because MPs approved it yesterday, while it was still being written by someone in essay crisis mode.

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            Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

            We are also engaging closely with EU Member States, businesses and other organisations
            to ensure that we have a thorough understanding of issues concerning the status of EU
            nationals in the UK.
            Shouldn't we have got an understanding by now?

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              Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

              Ha ha ha ha.



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                Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                So there we go. Parliament regains sovereignty and hands it back over to trade dispute bodies. I was never as bothered as some by these in principle, but I'm very bothered indeed by having our ludo players go up against the major powers.

                Again, who could see this coming? Corbyn did- unfortunately he concentrated on TIPP, and said it would be bad and we'd need him to win an election to veto it.

                But anyway, this is in store for us, and the patriots of all stripes voted for it.

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                  Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                  Britain seems to running a wonderfully attractive democracy given that 18 million people aren't even on the electoral register (according to pie chart near top of thread).

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                    Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                    Well there are about 11 million under-18s, plus the 3 million or so EU citizens who were not eligible to vote in the referendum, plus presumably a chunk of non-EU, non-Commonwealth citizens also not eligible to vote.

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                      Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                      The silly fool could have contacted the other useless Soc Dem parties around Europe, who would have told him TTIP had barely any chance of getting through the EU Parliament where it was repugnant to half the left and right factions let alone every Parliament (the Walloon toys out the pram against the Canadian deal was a little taster of the total havoc such a deal would create- and for negligible positive change to growth or Jobs Jobs Jobs). And with Trumpo in office, even less chance Europe would touch it with a barge pole. He has an amazing knack of fighting all the wrong battles.

                      The "But the UK Single Market is more Bigly!" proud anti nationalist BritNats like Iain Martin and Kenny Farqhuarson are yet again attacking the SNP over Angus Robertson attempting to link the Tory's preferred no hard border deal with NI with a future Indy Scotland no hard border deal at PMQs. Apparently this is disgraceful, offensive, in bad taste.

                      Why the fuck? We all know Korea's special circumstances etc, but a precedent's a precedent. I don't know anyone in Ireland who is offended by such things. Their logic leads to the conclusion that the Nats should have a Provo army. Peaceful civic nationalism can't be rewarded after all. Blowing up the statues of total cunts like Lord Dundas in Embra and Glasgow/Fat Queen Vicky looking an arsehole on top of the (jocko) National Gallery portico would be a nice symbolic casualty free gesture if that's what te feckers want but.

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                        Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                        Why the fuck? We all know Korea's special circumstances etc, but a precedent's a precedent. I don't know anyone in Ireland who is offended by such things.

                        indeed our Taoiseach raised a few eyebrows by insisting that the EU had to do something for their Remain voting EU brethern in Scotland, who were clearly going to want to stay in the EU. Ideally he should have waited, for David Cameron to finish his explanation of how he fucked everything up, but he got a bit excited.

                        The problem is that Scotland needs to get this across the line before everyone realises what the northern Irish border is going to actually look like. That guardian journalist reporting on that committee into the nature of the border was tweeting some terrifying stuff.

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                          Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                          It was either Farqhuarson or fellow dreary Unionist even if it kills us hack Chris Deerin that has also been tweeting that "highly placed" sources have told him Dublin, UK and EU have been having massively constructive negotiations behind the curtain on some Nordie exception. Hmm, I don't see why the Irish Govt would be so diplomatic but obviously contemptuous in its comments on talks with teh Brits this week then.

                          There might be civil service cordiality, but I just cant see the Irish Situation being a done deal straightwaway (and that German Customs Official's comments to MPs was terrifying). Though fudge here I can see (and NI hard Border with Bwitain- hahahahaha ya ferry riding Loyal to Greyskull 90 minute hate Worst Ever Tourists).

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                            Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                            The silly fool could have contacted the other useless Soc Dem parties around Europe, who would have told him TTIP had barely any chance of getting through the EU Parliament where it was repugnant to half the left and right factions let alone every Parliament (the Walloon toys out the pram against the Canadian deal was a little taster of the total havoc such a deal would create- and for negligible positive change to growth or Jobs Jobs Jobs). And with Trumpo in office, even less chance Europe would touch it with a barge pole. He has an amazing knack of fighting all the wrong battles.
                            Labour MEPs could have told him, but maybe he reckoned they were Blairite Trojan Horses or something. I noticed that all but one of them wanted him gone last summer, so maybe they didn't think it worth telling him.

                            The point of it was diplomatic/strategic as much as economic in the here and now. Maybe it could have been sold in the EU on that basis, but I don't know.

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                              Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                              http://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/brexit-and-democracy.html

                              It's all shit, but the people have spoken, and if anything else goes wrong, it's the fault of those rebels who (mostly) went with the will of the people who elected them.

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                                Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                Been reminded of Donald Tusk saying that Brexit would boost anti-Europeanism and destroy Western political civilisation

                                Predictably, got huge ridicule from our Kippers. But he isn't looking silly now.

                                Can we have more politicians with that vision here now, please?

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                                  Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                  May''s offer of being a "bridge" to Trump seems to have gone down badly. Spectacularly ill-judged.

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                                    Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                    Tubbs, I'm not sure that tusk is saying anything too visionary. What he's saying is pretty obvious to any member of the EU-27 who thinks about it for any length of time. The flipside of it is that what happens to britain, combined with a fear of the Americans and the russians is going to push more and more people towards the EU, and help drive the further integration of the EU.

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                                      Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                      Huh. So I missed this, but apparently on Wednesday David Jones said "we have no plans to withdraw from the ECHR". This is a pretty huge change of tack, no? Is this weasel words on the basis that it's not in the current manifesto but will be next time? Or is it just that because they're scrapping the HRA, the ECHR won't have direct effect, so they don't need to withdraw?

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                                        Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                        The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: Tubbs, I'm not sure that tusk is saying anything too visionary. What he's saying is pretty obvious to any member of the EU-27 who thinks about it for any length of time. The flipside of it is that what happens to britain, combined with a fear of the Americans and the russians is going to push more and more people towards the EU, and help drive the further integration of the EU.
                                        Indeed, that may already be happening, with the SPD gaining on the CDU in Germany, Hamon rising in the French polls, and both the AfD and the PVV either stalled or going backwards. That said, Greece is reportedly on the brink of default, again.

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                                          Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                          The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: Tubbs, I'm not sure that tusk is saying anything too visionary. What he's saying is pretty obvious to any member of the EU-27 who thinks about it for any length of time. The flipside of it is that what happens to britain, combined with a fear of the Americans and the russians is going to push more and more people towards the EU, and help drive the further integration of the EU.
                                          I think when he said it, before the Referendum, it was prescient and brave to use such strong words. Cameron in fairness had the odd moment too, which got misrepresented as "World War Three" by fucking Boris.

                                          But generally the high stakes weren't appreciated. They are now.

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                                            Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                            Tubby Isaacs wrote: May''s offer of being a "bridge" to Trump seems to have gone down badly. Spectacularly ill-judged.
                                            Among other things, May reminds of the sort of middle manager who misses 40 minutes of an hour long meeting and then proceeds to blithely ignore the possibility that they sorted everything out on the agenda while she wasn't there.

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                                              Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                              Ginger Yellow wrote: Huh. So I missed this, but apparently on Wednesday David Jones said "we have no plans to withdraw from the ECHR". This is a pretty huge change of tack, no? Is this weasel words on the basis that it's not in the current manifesto but will be next time? Or is it just that because they're scrapping the HRA, the ECHR won't have direct effect, so they don't need to withdraw?
                                              I think that's been the position for a while. Or did May change it, and now changing it back.

                                              Comment


                                                Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                                Snake Plissken wrote:
                                                Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs
                                                May''s offer of being a "bridge" to Trump seems to have gone down badly. Spectacularly ill-judged.
                                                Among other things, May reminds of the sort of middle manager who misses 40 minutes of an hour long meeting and then proceeds to blithely ignore the possibility that they sorted everything out on the agenda while she wasn't there.
                                                Yeah.

                                                Lithuania had a good pop. They said they were happy just reading Trump on Twitter, thanks.

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                                                  Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                                  There was a lot of reporting around the New Year that withdrawal would be in the 2020 manifesto. And May did call for it before she ran for PM and softened her tone.

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                                                    Brexit Means: Leaving Single Market, Customs Union European Court of Justice

                                                    Tubby Isaacs wrote:
                                                    Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!
                                                    Tubbs, I'm not sure that tusk is saying anything too visionary. What he's saying is pretty obvious to any member of the EU-27 who thinks about it for any length of time. The flipside of it is that what happens to britain, combined with a fear of the Americans and the russians is going to push more and more people towards the EU, and help drive the further integration of the EU.
                                                    I think when he said it, before the Referendum, it was prescient and brave to use such strong words. Cameron in fairness had the odd moment too, which got misrepresented as "World War Three" by fucking Boris.

                                                    But generally the high stakes weren't appreciated. They are now.
                                                    In fairness tubby, that only applies to England. Everyone else has always appreciated the stakes. For instande The French have always at least partially viewed Brexit in terms of what it will do for the FN. Everyone in Europe is terrified about their own rightwing extremists. In the UK they've turned theirs in to national comic treasures.

                                                    The thing to remember is that any person in the EU 27 who is aware of the situation in the UK is already thinking about the EU in terms of thinking about more than one country, and they are likely to be aware of broader trends. The EU referendum debate took place entirely within the confines of the UK, as though the rest of the world didn't matter. It's not really a case of vision, it's a case of perspective.

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