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    Originally posted by Fussbudget View Post
    Nef, but we're talking about fast and direct intercity journeys here, aren't we? There are only 6 direct trains a day between Sunderland and York, for example, even though the distance would be fairly commutable. I wouldn't say Sunderland is particularly well connected to anywhere outside its immediate area (and that's with big satellite towns like Washington and Peterlee not even having train stations.)

    Tubbs, from experience those particular 30-year-old trains are rubbish, slow and uncomfortable, and are used on journeys of up to 3-4 hours.
    I see they do that Norwich-Liverpool route, which must be a long haul, because they're commuter-style trains. They've been running from London to Exeter, so there's likely routes where they'll be fine, if they're refurbished.

    That's awful for Sunderland to York. Generally, frequency in Britain is pretty good, and often underappreciated. Not there.

    Washington is the Leamside Line, isn't it? Used to be the first line anybody mentioned when asked what should be reopened. That's something a regional mayor could oversee reopening.
    Last edited by Tubby Isaacs; 17-11-2017, 22:23.

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      I suppose a bus station can be built on at a later date, but a shopping centre?!

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        Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
        Washington is the Leamside Line, isn't it? Used to be the first line anybody mentioned when asked what should be reopened.
        It is indeed, it also served Houghton-Le-Spring (through Fencehouses station) which is another big town in the area without a rail link.

        I see they do that Norwich-Liverpool route
        Do they really? Blimey Charlie.

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          The 25 miles from Middlesbrough to Sunderland takes 58 minutes or so on the train.

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            Is that because of that loop it does through Stockton (by the look of it)?

            Is there no way it could go straight up the coast?

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              Originally posted by Fussbudget View Post
              Nef, but we're talking about fast and direct intercity journeys here, aren't we? There are only 6 direct trains a day between Sunderland and York, for example, even though the distance would be fairly commutable. I wouldn't say Sunderland is particularly well connected to anywhere outside its immediate area (and that's with big satellite towns like Washington and Peterlee not even having train stations.)

              Tubbs, from experience those particular 30-year-old trains are rubbish, slow and uncomfortable, and are used on journeys of up to 3-4 hours.
              I was thinking more about the fact that Sunderland and Newcastle are well enough connected via the metro so that a fast train to Newcastle to London is 2hours and 40 minutes and the metro another 25 minutes on top of that. The Metro is like the beginning of a German SBahn, it is criminal that it doesnt connect to washington and peterlee and to a proper network of regional trains. [Ed or to Middlesborough]
              The train from Sunderland to London isn't terrible (3 hours 2O minutes odd) but it goes via Hartlepool and avoids York as I recall.
              Last edited by Nefertiti2; 17-11-2017, 23:00.

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                Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                I suppose a bus station can be built on at a later date, but a shopping centre?!
                St Enoch’s station. Linked directly to the subway, handled loads of the suburban lines now diverted to heaving Central Station. Was perhaps even more impressively grand a terminus/hotel than Central. Look on the black and whites on the internets and weep. They built a massive glass pyramid of chain store shops (that is now dying) after letting the building rot till the 70s. I think some of the dock on which the SECC/Hydro now stands was form the rubble of St Enoch. Only the subway ticket station still stands, mid square (now a Cafe Nero), with modern Foster Bilbaoesque knock-off entrances to the metro front and rear.
                Last edited by Lang Spoon; 17-11-2017, 22:57.

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                  Much though I love talking about trains, and could do so for hours, we might be getting a bit tangential to the topic at hand here – neglect, inequality etc.

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                    Yeah, that's an excellent idea.

                    The press is turning against Brexit.

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                      Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                      Is that because of that loop it does through Stockton (by the look of it)?

                      Is there no way it could go straight up the coast?
                      Well you would need to build a railway bridge across the Tees between Boro and Billingham, I suppose that would be technically possible (historically it wouldn't have been done due to the heavy ship traffic, which isn't so much of a problem these days) but it's a bit more investment than we normally tend to get. Maybe we could get a EU grant for it or something.

                      That's only part of the reason why the journey takes so long, there's also the fact that every service stops at every stop on the line with no express service between the bigger towns, and trains on that line are also super slow (45mph tops) for some reason.
                      Last edited by Fussbudget; 17-11-2017, 23:28.

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                        Oh sorry E10. Look, I even made a Brexit joke and everything.

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                          I appreciated your reply anyhow.

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                            Well thank you. I'll let normal service resume now!

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                              No objection to Brexit jokes from me. One of my gripes with Tubby's entanglement with this issue is that he's not even dropping in any county cricket from the 70s analogies into his everyday discourse anymore

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                                Ha ha.

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                                  But if you compare interlocking regional conurbations similar to Newcastle/Sunderland/Teeside with a population of about 1.5 million to its equivalent in say Germany its one way to see how chronic the underinvestment in infrastructure has been. London is pretty much the only part of the Uk with funcitoning public transport.

                                  In Germany an area of that size there would be integrated train bus S bahn across the region with one ticket, affordable weekly/monthly season tickets for commuters kids and suddenly public space is public and available to all.

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                                    Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                    Can’t see Wales on there. Have they decided just to keep sellotaping their shitey old trains together?
                                    The electrification of the South Wales lines got canned because it would have been funded by EU money. All decent infrastructure in Wales in the last 25 years has been funded by EU money. It's why I dismiss every Welsh Leave voter as a fuckwit of the highest order.

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                                      Just £1 spent on North East transport for every £9 spent in London

                                      Not just the north east of course:

                                      (2016)

                                      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7177656.html

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                                        That’s still the biggest surprise to me, you can’t walk six feet in Wales without seeing a funded by the EU sign on something.

                                        I know somebody posted an article a few months ago that talked about Wales and how local people felt a load of money on a community fitness centre was a boondoggle, but there’s practically nothing else around that wasn’t EU funded.

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                                          Cornwall (Leave: 56.5%) also massively benefited from various EU grants, support and regeneration funds. From the Times of 10 Nov. (Candy Atherton’s obit):

                                          As the Labour MP for Falmouth and Cambourne, Atherton left a significant legacy. She was instrumental in browbeating Tony Blair into delivering Objective One, an initiative that directed more than £2 billion of European funding to Cornwall to improve NHS and university facilities, transport infrastructure and superfast broadband.

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                                            Originally posted by Flynnie View Post
                                            That’s still the biggest surprise to me, you can’t walk six feet in Wales without seeing a funded by the EU sign on something.

                                            I know somebody posted an article a few months ago that talked about Wales and how local people felt a load of money on a community fitness centre was a boondoggle, but there’s practically nothing else around that wasn’t EU funded.
                                            In Wales case (and I'd guess lots of other "bite the hand that feeds" places) the age profile was an important factor, with so many pensioners about. I expect a case could be made that considering demographics, it was more Remainy than par.

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                                              I suspect that "look what they did to our fisherman" was a big factor in Cornwall- Gove and all managed to get that one all over the media, and it likely talked to lots of people nowhere near the coast.

                                              Of course, in the greater scheme of things, the fishing industry is small, and isn't going to be a huge priority in negotiations. At the moment, we might be exporting to the EEA by bankers having a quota they can carry in their briefcase.

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                                                automotive, medicine research, aerospace, farming, universities, retail, banking, energy, environmental NGOs, consumer protection, construction
                                                Seb Dance MEP lists the sector representatives who've met him asking for special arrangements under Brexit.

                                                He'll be getting fishing, food processing, hospitality, tourism, car manufacturing through the door in due course.

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                                                  Long piece on Ireland and Brexit it's apparent that the British side don't appreciate that EU membership means that Ireland is no longer the junior partner economically dependent on its former colonial masters.

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